Book of Mormon and the Seer Stone

Arguments For and Against the Authenticity of the Book of Mormon

Book of Mormon and the Seer Stone

Book of Mormon and the Seer Stone

Overview

Despite the Book of Mormon being the source of the strongest spiritual awakening of my life,  I likely would believe the Book of Mormon to be a non-historical or mythical spiritualist channeling instead of an actual history –were it not for this model and a few of the key evidences offered in this section.  I’ve found that the predominate Heartland and limited Mesoamerican models out there seem to conflict with the overall impression, scope and internal model of the book (as I’ve delineated in this article). However, this unique continental geography model overcomes those limiting issues as it essentially matches every major Book of Mormon city and culture with essentially the biggest and most influential archaeological sites, cultures, migrations and societal collapses on the ancient North American continent (in the way the book seems to portray). It also explains many of the cultural anachronisms, 19th century religious overtones, and KJV biblical quotes by comparing the translation process to other forms of spiritual mediumship used in many other American religious works of the 1800’s. (See OahspeUrantia Bible, or the other texts featured in our channeled texts section. Also see the Kolbrin and Ixtlilxochitl’s translations of Aztec Codices for amazing analogs to the Book of Mormon translation).

Still though… As a scientist and analytical thinker I continually weigh the arguments for and against Book of Mormon authenticity against each other, in the same way that I weigh the Egyptian chronologies of Menetho or Herodotus against archaeological evidence to determine how much weight to give those supposed historical accounts.


Neutral Arguments

-the arguments concerning animal anachronisms and metal anachronisms aren’t very good in my opinion.  They really could go either way. On one hand they seem anachronistic because you might think Joseph “didn’t know” that there weren’t horses or cows or swords in ancient America. On the other hand, many of the supposed anachronism ARE things a 17th century author likely would have known about ancient America, and yet they put them in there anyway–only to be later proven correct (copper, ziff, swords, early transoceanic travel, migration from the pacific coast, etc). Either way, the majority of these can mostly be explained by a loose translation. Overall the anachronism arguments seem to cancel each other out and be a neutral proof–unconvincing either for or against authenticity.


Poor Arguments

-the idea that the Book was written so fast is proof of its truthfulness is a horrible argument. Many channeled texts which Mormon’s would have issue with, were written with incredible speed. Oahspe (supposedly channeled from light beings in 1850) is a great example. Over 1000  pages channeled in a number of weeks. The Urantia Bible and the writings of other people like Ellen White are other great examples. The Aquarian gospel of Jesus Christ and many other exist as well. People who use this argument are unfamiliar with channeled literature.


Arguments Against Authenticity

-CES letter issues such as word-for-word King James Bible language, and the mistakes in the King James Isaiah being propagated in the Book of Mormon are a pretty solid argument against authenticity—  There is little doubt the B.O.M. Isaiah chapters were copied straight from the King James, with only a couple changes made by the “translator as he went”. The chances of these being the originals are slim–if they were originals we would expect significant differences. The Dead Sea Scrolls version of Isaiah contains 2600 textual variants when compared with the Masoretic codex.[2]  We would expect at least as many, if not more in the Book of Mormon were it truly a 600BC text. The only viable explanation I can fathom is that the B.O.M. is an incredibly “loose” translation, where Joseph was required to come up with most of the words himself, getting only ideas psychically–with the exception of names and places which had to be spelled out in a very time consuming and difficult channeling process. Thus for simplicity and brevity, the Spiritual channels, passing the information to Joseph pulled the KJV text out of his mind (because Joseph had read it previously, and it existed in his sub-conscious). Note: The channeled work, The Law of One explains in more detail how this channeling works, and tediously “spells out” numbers.

-See Dan Vogel’s stuff on anti-universalism in the B.O.M.  The similarity in phraseology to other literature in Joseph’s day, makes it seem an awful lot like a product of his times.  At the same time however, is seems unlikely that Joseph would have been reading very much of the theological literature of his day… let alone be able to reproduce it.  Could this be evidence of some kind of ‘group consciousness’ aspect of channeling?  At any rate, the anti-universalism and Christology do NOT seem like anything that would have existed in an ancient text.  Could the Book of Mormon (like many channelings) be a mixture of things in Joseph’s mind, with things in the cultural ‘group mind’ of New England mixed perhaps with a true true history of ancient America? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm7t7pNUWAM   (Note the similarities in Oahspe’s channeled account of ancient America, or the Law of One’s channeled accounts of the past, and the Book of Mormons.)

-The New Testament allusions in the Book of Mormon are incredibly suspect. Whether it be Moroni’s sermon on charity in Mor. 7:x, which shares exact phraseology with Paul, or whether it be the shared Pauline phraseology concerning “dead works” and baptism in Moroni 3-6.  There is a lot of the New Testament in the Book of Mormon.  These references seem to be obviously influenced by someone who had read the New Testament and was brought up in Anglo-Christian culture.  And they flow just like the Old Testament allusions. Really what are the chances that was written by chance in 400 AD Mesoamerica?  Find something in India or China like that… very unlikely. Frankly, the text reads incredibly like many of the Spanish Codices, where true historical mexican histories and myth are being translated and transcribed into sixteenth century European Christianized language, format & culture.  Of course, much of this could be explained with a ‘loose translation’, where original concepts were translated into 19 century biblical wording, phrases and organization.

-Verses that predict the three witnesses, and Anthon translation are crazy suspect.  Why would someone in 500 BC prophesy about that?  Its so inconsequential and asinine, it just fits the King James reading of Isaiah, why even put it in there?  I guess its possible, but seems lamely improbable.  These are too improbable that the only redeeming explanation of these is that the entire 116 lost pages section (Ether, 1 Nephi, 2 Nephi) were re-channeled completely different than the original in way that wasn’t even a loose translation, but a modern summary attempting to capture some essence of the original text.

-Also the prophecy in Ether by “Joseph” saying another “Joseph” who is the son of Joseph will restore his words…. totally crazy. Joseph didn’t even prophecy about Christ or David or Moses… and yet he prophesies about Joseph Smith?  Not likely. These would have to be transcription injections by Joseph. (see above reasoning)

-Southpark’s ‘dum, da, dum, dum’ bit on why Joseph couldn’t just retranslate the ‘lost 116 pages’ is a really good point. The explanation given in the D&C that others changed these pages and were going to accuse Joseph that they didn’t match makes little sense.  The fact that he couldn’t reproduce the same pages is FAR more damning against the “translation’s” legitimacy than any “changed” text that Harris’s wive’s friends could have produced. Why not just retranslate it? A more possible explanation is the opposite of that given in D&C 12.  That the Book of Mormon was loosely channeled, and that a second draft would have actually been SO different from the original that those who stole the pages would have accused Joseph of fraud, not because THEY changed things, but because the differences in Joseph’s second draft would have been significant (even if they were substantially similar in concept, but vastly different in wording, order and storyline).

The only believable explanation I can find with these is the idea of a mixed “social memory complex” given in ‘The Law of One’.  (Essentially a group-consciousness of spirits or resurrected beings living in higher planes of existence or the shared mental realm of humanity itself).  Because there is such notable Anglo-Christian and Mesoamerican influence I could conceive that if a social memory complex existed in the heavens which was composed of both European/Anglo Christians and Mesoamericans (perhaps groups of deceased Mesoamericans who were taught by Spanish Bishops in the period between the Spanish Conquest of Mexico and Joseph Smith), and that if this group had an agenda wanting to publish their records and story and allowed both Joseph’s and their own ideas to be injected into the channeling.

-why didn’t Joseph just show people the actual plates? All the secrecy and the accounts that the 3 & 11 witnesses only saw the plates with an “eye of faith” or “spiritual vision”, is suspect. (although there are conflicting accounts which attest to seeing them too). But given as a whole, it makes me think that even Joseph, also only saw the plates “in vision”.  Also the fact that he seems to have purposefully deceived people by using the hat and a “cover” to obscure the plates. Either this is the higher plane group trying to preserve the “free will distortion” spoken of in the Law of One, or there really was deceit going on here, which doesn’t speak well for the BOM’s authenticity.  The idea that “God took the plates” after Joseph was done is completely ridiculous.  If that was a possibility, then why didn’t god just take them from Moroni?  Then he could have given them to anyone, anytime in history afterwards. No need to wait until 1830 in New York; he could have done it in Mexico City in 1620 or Missouri in 1860, and avoided all the persecution and issues which came from Joseph supposedly digging them up only to constantly hide them. I think the Ankalan channeling is a perfect analog. Joseph really believed all his visions were real. But in order to get others to believe him, he constantly stretched the truth and used nebulous language to obscure the difference between visionary experiences and objectively real experiences.

Of course its also possible he wrote the B.O.M. and all his other “revelations” with a few friends from pure imagination. And made up the church and “kingdom” as he went. However, given the Kolbrin, and that Xong Xiuquan “coincidentally” did almost the same thing in China in the same decade, with his “heavenly kingdom” and continental Taiping Rebellion seems even more implausible even with the above issues.


Arguments For Authenticity

-the Book of Mormon’s allusion in the Bible are amazing. Whoever wrote it, knew the bible like a champ. Really in an almost impossible way. Nephi’s allusions to the cities of refuge in Leviticus, as a justification for why it was OK for him to slay Laban are so subtle.. who would have ever thought about that? And that’s just one example of many. Witnesses attest that he recited all the Isaiah and malachi sections in the plates without referencing other sources.

-The mention of “elephants, curloms and cumoms” could be a pro (or neutral) argument to me. Mammoths were written about as early as 1722 by John Bell who explored the Ob River in Russia. Mammoths were first popularly described by German scientist Johann Friedrich Blumenback in 1799. And were well known enough that Thomas Jefferson used the world ‘Mammoth’ as an adjective in 1802. But it seems like a stretch that he would have decided to put them in the book as being “especially useful for the food of man”.  What are the chances that he knew that they (as well as other extinct megafauna) were a major food staple in the Paleoindian diet, and that their extinction seems to be related to climate change (a dearth) and over hunting?  Why did he call them ‘Elephants’ instead of ‘Mammoths?’  Why invent these other crazy words ‘curelom and cumom’ to describe other animals that were ‘especially useful for the food of man’.

-The idea that Nephi sailed across the pacific from the Indian Ocean instead of across the Atlantic like the pilgrims doesn’t fit what you’d expect a New Englander who was making up a novel would write.

-The fact that the arrival of true writing in Mesoamerica with the Zapotec script matches so well with my model for the Nephites is  a huge proof. (and that earlier Olmec script is so different).  And that it coincides so well with class stratification and and new system of government and stratified priestly ruling system in Monte Alban, with a two columned temple like Solomon’s.  Seriously crazy coincidences.

-The general fit of cultures in the Book of Mormon fits crazy well with the Zapotec, Highland Cultures and Mayan.  You couldn’t ask for a better fit.  The continental collapse of each culture from the Maya to the Toltec to the Anasazi and Mississippian between 700AD & 1400AD is an amazing coincidence. The Book of Mormon’s narrative for these downfalls it far better than the narrative believed by archaeologists currently. Only time will tell if the Carbon Dates could actually be skewed in the way they’d have to be— but I think the evidence sides better with the Book of Mormon (especially with the Anasazi rise and disappearance).

-The River Sidon the the Rio Balsas is an amazing fit… I don’t think Joseph would have been able to imagine anything but New England or Yucatan type rivers (far too large to cross without boats).  Yet his descriptions of the River Sidon fit perfectly with the arid, seasonal flow of Balsas as well as it being a major geographical boundary between the Nephite & Lamanite lands.

-If Joseph or some New Englander wrote the Book of Mormon with Mesoamerica in mind, (as the ‘Narrow Neck’ suggests) why didn’t they mention pyramids?  Why call them towers? The ‘tower’ and building project of King Noah fits so perfectly with Monte Alban, its uncanny.  But why not call them pyramids to better capture the imagination of his readers. He throws in the phrase ‘reformed Egyptian’, (which I think all New Englanders were captivated by the ‘Egyptian-like’ writing of Mesoamerica), why not call the towers what they undoubtedly would have been… pyramids?  Why not make the narrow neck fit Panama if that’s what he was envisioning? Why not mention jungles?  Or ANYTHING that made the location somewhat obvious.  Why not make the land at least SOMEWHAT fit South America or Mexico?  But it doesn’t. He would have had access to an accurate map of central and south America, so why does the VERY detailed geography of the Book of Mormon, NOT fit the known topography?  This is far more likely of an actual ancient text written by people who had a non-modern distorted view of their own geography (much like herodotus and other legitimate ancient geographers).

-Seems strange for anyone to have the Jaredites come in tight ‘dish-like’ boats and take so much longer than the Lehites and kill of and eat the elephants (mammoths), when all of that strongly contradicts the 1820’s prevailing views.    And what are the chances that so much (circumstantial?) evidence of cuneiform would surface in North America? The Chief Joseph Tablet from 1877 and the Georgia (Hearn) Tablet from 1963 made from lead. The Shawnee Creek Stone from Oklahoma also seems to bare a resemblance to middle-eastern culture. https://newsmaven.io/indiancountrytoday/archive/where-did-chief-joseph-get-his-mesopotamian-tablet-JuItqhPUYkeYmvcooUO6kA/

-‘Description of Antiquities Discovered in the State of Ohio and other Western States’ by Caleb Atwater, gives an origin story for the native americans somewhat similar to the B.O.M.  Alluding to them coming from ‘the tower of babel’ (p. xx). And in another part migrating from ‘Hindustan’ (p. 213) or ‘Tartarary’ (north Asia). James Adair in ‘History of the Indians (1775), also suggests the tower, and later the ’10 tribes’ or explorers sent from David’s kingdom, alluding to the Bering strait (Kamschatska, p. 219/20).

However, Rancesco Clavigero’s ‘History of Mexico’ (1806) give a FAR more modern view talking of how natives could have arrived here by sea or land, but most likely across the ice of the bering strait.  He also speaks of elephants & Mammouts. (p. 106) As well as how there were NO horses, asses or bulls in America until Europeans brought them there. see http://olivercowdery.com/texts/bookindx.htm

OUTLINE OF GREAT CORRELATIONS IN ORDER

-Having barge-like boats (no sails) get the Jaredites to N.America instead of just walking across the Bering Strait was a bold and amazing call. He wouldn’t have known about the lack of an ‘ice free corridor’ debate that rages today.  And I would suspect a boat voyage from Asia across the bering strait (which was a view of his day) would be incredibly short… so why did Joseph have them travel twice as long as the Nephites in crazy type raft-boats?

-Jaredites hunting mammoths to extinction is another great call. I’ve seen no evidence of this information being known in 1830

-The story of Omer and the Bull Brook Complex is an amazing fit! (what are the chances?)

-Having a lone Jaredite outpost by the narrow neck with architecture (mounds) like the north American heartland is an amazing fit with the Adena vs Olmec.

-Having the Nephites travel across Arabia, and then traverse the pacific the way they did seems very unintuitive for someone in 1830. did he have ANY clue of the south pacific islands that could be hopped?

-Nahom is a pretty fair match or ‘coincidence’. Just having the name be the same is a big deal, because Nahom is NOT in the bible. (but Nahum is). Likewise with the newly publicized Beit Lehi (cave in Israel).  Lehi also isn’t a name in the Bible, its only a place mentioned only once in connection with David.  So to find it as a common name all the way into the Greek period is a great evidence that Joseph picked a name very likely to have been in use.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDqIfI1Fwcg

–The match between some of the earliest writing in Monte Alban, and the City of Nephi is amazing. And really the correlation with pyramids and hieroglyphic writing in general is a pretty obvious match. Its kind of mind blowing that this similarity is so universally dismissed by academics. (even the Javan pyramid makes a great match with the story)

-The match with ___’s work in San Jose Migote with the new religion, and two room temple ‘men’s house’ and its introduction of complex social structure is an amazing fit.

-The match between Monte Alban and its ‘tower’, 2 room temple, alter and prison with BOM stories of the same is amazing. How could you ASK for better matches?

-The distinct Olmecean culture of Zarahemla and its correlation to the Kolbrin egyptian stories might be one of the biggest matches of all! (you need to write about this!)  Included in that is how all the creation stories have them coming from the north! Near Sanora, just like the BOM says of the mulekites.

-The match of Captain Moroni’s line of defensive cities with the Miztec and East Coast cities is also a good match.  I can’t really find ANY OTHER MODEL with a geographic match of those defensive lines!

-The story of the great gathering under Lachoneus (3 Ne 3) to defend against the Gadianton Robbers matching with the creation of Teotihuacan is so fantastic, that if it isn’t true… its better than the truth.

-The volcanism in the Mexican Highland and its proximity to the Nephite capital is also better than any other model.

-The Nephite destruction matching with the fall of every major empire in North America is a fantastic match.. once again, if it isn’t the truth… it makes a better story than whatever the truth is.

-Also the narrative of Racism built into the BOM of POGP, as an explanation of so little DNA is pretty believable. (utterly destroyed)

-The match of the gathering at desolation and the ‘Chacoan phenomena’ is fantastic, especially in its match to _____’s stories of migrating Toltecs going all the way to Cahokia.

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CONCLUSION AND FINAL THOUGHTS

-In my opinion, because of these issues, if one is to have faith in any sort of divinity concerning the text, you’ve got to see it as a ‘channeled text’ instead of a revealed or translated text.  It needs to go in the same genre as other channeled texts like Oahspe, Urantia, D&C, or A Course in Miracles.  Joseph channeled it through his own mind or subconscious from some unknown source. He saw the ‘plates’ in vision just like the author of The Aklatan did. (see Did the Eleven Witnesses Actually See the Gold Plates?) He continually stretched the truth and led people to believe that his visions or both the plates and god were objective experiences, because he wanted people to believe them (as he thoroughly believed them). But like those other channeled texts, it has so many great truths that one could be justified as building a faith around the idea of there being divinity in the book (like the Bible, Koran, writings of Ellen White, or other religious texts with form a basis for a faith community). It seems entirely possible that it actually  depicts a true history of certain regions of prehistoric North America.  But one must also accept it’s major issues and come to terms with the possibility that it is not a historical translation of an ancient text. I could see some ancient native religious/military leader converting to Western Christianity in the Spirit World and then working through Joseph’s subconscious to create something that put ancient religious ideas into 17th century Christian religious terms—in addition to adding a bunch of sermons on 17th century contemporary issues..  More likely Joseph (likely with Spirit being helpers, pulled ancient American historical events and concepts out of the ‘Akashic records‘ and mixed it with sermons answering contemporary Christian theological problems. It could certainly be largely true. But certainly not as a translated ancient text without substantial addition and translation of ancient concepts into modern language, culture and ideology.

The Mexican Highland-Continental Book of Mormon Geography Model (book drafts)

by Lance Weaver

The following is a draft version of my under construction Book of Mormon geography book, entitled, The Book of Mormon Mexican Highland Continental Model. It is a work in progress currently doubling as a video and in person presentation. Currently at over 200 pages, when finished it will be published as one or two coffee table books, as well as YouTube video summaries of my model. Use keyboard arrows to advance slides once the viewer has focus. Or see the PDF below (same book)

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This below is an out of date version of the above slides/book in pdf format.

With cursor in the above window (when window has focus), scroll down to see the rest of the document w

Comparing Book of Mormon Geography Models

A few of the most popular Book of Mormon Model’s

TABLE OF CONTENTS/LINKS
Issues with most models
The heartland model
Limited Mesoamerican models
2 Cumorah theory
The Sorenson/Grijalva models

The Usumacinta models
The Mexican Highland model

Introduction

Among Book of Mormon enthusiasts, there are two primary camps of belief concerning where the events in the book took place. One camp, called the Heartland group, believes the Book of Mormon took place in the ‘heartland’ or center of the eastern United States. This group uses archaeological evidence of ancient Hopewell, Adena and middle woodland cultures to support their model’s claims. A second, more academic group of Book of Mormon enthusiasts believe the Book of Mormon took place entirely in the Mesoamerican area of Southern Mexico and Northern Guatemala. This groups correlates Mayan ruins in Chiapas and Veracruz with Book of Mormon events. GatheredinOne, however is dedicated to a third model loosely proposed by Joseph Smith (you can read ALL his quotes on the matter here) and expanded by this author, called the Mexican Highland-Continental model—where BOTH the United States and Mexico are primary regions of Book of Mormon lands.

Joseph’s ‘Continental Model‘ was never fully developed and quickly lost support even among the earliest Book of Mormon researchers because none could reconcile the idea he seemed to suggest that Mesoamerica was the Nephite Land Southward, while the US Southwest and Midwest were the Nephite land of Desolation—that according to the text, should be directly north of the Book of Mormon’s “narrow neck of land” (which the book seems to paint as an isthmus). This “narrow neck problem“, divided the church and gave rise to a third camp led by Orson Pratt suggesting a Hemispheric model which included North AND South America with Panama as the narrow neck. The current author, however believes to have solved the narrow neck problem by correlating the Book of Mormon’s narrow neck with the Baja California peninsula. In this model, the narrow neck was merely the defining feature used by the ancients (and later Aztec Chroniclers to delineate the border between the Book of Mormon’s Land Southward (Mexico) and the Land Northward (the United States). In another article I show that in the Book of Mormon nothing ever happens ON the narrow neck, only BY. And the ‘narrow passes’ of the Book of Mormon were only assumed to be on the narrow neck.

Issues with Most Book of Mormon Geographic Correlations

The Book of Mormon’s internal geographic model is incredibly detailed and consistent. Perhaps as much so as any ancient record of its genre. But no Book of Mormon model is without substantial problems when it comes to fitting the geographic descriptions of the text with real world analogs. This article attempts to critique a few of the most popular models with the text.

Although Mesoamerican models generally do a better job at matching the geography of the text than heartland models, still the most difficult geographic feature to reconcile is the detailed configuration of Nephite/Lamanite ‘border’ cities explained the the war chapters of Alma 42-54. In Alma 50:7–14 we learn that Moroni creates a NEW border between the Nephite and Lamanite lands, and fortifies it with garrisons/cities which run between the Land of Nephi and Land of Zarahemla “in a straight course from the east sea to the west [sea]” (Alma 50:8–11, esp. verse 11; Alma 22:27). Alma 56:25 (see also Alma 59:5–7, Alma 43:22) verifies this by showing that south frontier town of Manti, while only a few days march from the west sea city and other south frontier garrisons (Alma 52:12,15Alma 56:31), is also close enough to reasonably march to Nephihah and Moroni and the east sea (Alma 51:26). Moroni also fortifies the entire east coast from the new southern border all the way to the “Narrow Pass” (Alma 50:34; Alma 52:9) which leads to the land Northward. In essence making a backward L of defensive cities to guard the Nephite southern frontier and eastern coast.

An internal model of Book of Mormon Geography
My Internal model of Book of Mormon Geography. See its details in this article.

When Amalickiah comes to battle the Nephites in Alma 51, he first takes the southmost ‘east coast’ city of Moroni and “all of their fortifications”, and then goes on to “take Nephihah, Lehi, Morianton, Omner, Gid and Mulek, all of which were east on the borders of the seashore” (Alma 51:26), suggesting that those cities were arranged in that order from south to north along the east sea.  They then “march forth… that they might take possession of the land Bountiful and also the land northward” (Alma 51:30).

As we’ll discuss later in this article, this configuration in the heartland model is virtually impossible unless you tuck the entirely of the lands of Nephi and Zarahemla in some little corner between the Great Lakes (such as the lower Peninsula of Michigan). However if you do this, you destroyed nearly every other correlative piece of evidence used by Heartlanders. From Zelph, to the D&C Zarahemla, to the Adena and Hopewell ruins. 

For the Mesoamerican Mayanland models a similar problem arises when matching the narrow neck with Tehuantepec. The problem lies in the Yucatan Peninsula ruining the logic and description of the ‘east sea cites’ of Moroni, Aaron, Nephihah, Jershon, Lehi, Morianton, Omner, Gid, and Mulek and their proximity to the land and city of Manti at the head of the river Sidon (Alma 50:34; Alma 52:9 — see the section entitled ‘MANTI IS IN PROXIMITY TO NEPHIHAH & MORONI IN THE TEXT’ for details)

This is why essentially NO popular internal model out there seems to look like the Yucatan. They almost universally agree with a ‘backwards L’ configuration of the Alma 42-54 war border cities. 

Separate authors internal models of the Book of Mormon. Left BYU Virtual Scriptures by Tyler Griffin, Middle Joel Hardy Map (1998), Right, Old LDS Institute manual map.

Internal models of The Book of Mormon show a high degree of agreement for a reason. Alma 22 draws a fairly clear picture of the basic layout of Book of Mormon lands.

27 And it came to pass that the king sent a proclamation throughout all the land, amongst all his people who were in all his land, who were in all the regions round about, which was bordering even to the sea, on the east and on the west, and which was divided from the land of Zarahemla by a narrow strip of wilderness, which ran from the sea east even to the sea west, and round about on the borders of the seashore, and the borders of the wilderness which was on the north by the land of Zarahemla, through the borders of Manti, by the head of the river Sidon, running from the east towards the west—and thus were the Lamanites and the Nephites divided.

28 Now, the more idle part of the Lamanites lived in the wilderness, and dwelt in tents; and they were spread through the wilderness on the west, in the land of Nephi; yea, and also on the west of the land of Zarahemla, in the borders by the seashore, and on the west in the land of Nephi, in the place of their fathers’ first inheritance, and thus bordering along by the seashore.

29 And also there were many Lamanites on the east by the seashore, whither the Nephites had driven them. And thus the Nephites were nearly surrounded by the Lamanites; nevertheless the Nephites had taken possession of all the northern parts of the land bordering on the wilderness, at the head of the river Sidon, from the east to the west, round about on the wilderness side; on the north, even until they came to the land which they called Bountiful.

30 And it bordered upon the land which they called Desolation, it being so far northward that it came into the land which had been peopled and been destroyed, of whose bones we have spoken, which was discovered by the people of Zarahemla, it being the place of their first landing.

31 And they came from there up into the south wilderness. Thus the land on the northward was called Desolation, and the land on the southward was called Bountiful, it being the wilderness which is filled with all manner of wild animals of every kind, a part of which had come from the land northward for food.

32 And now, it was only the distance of a day and a half’s journey for a Nephite, on the line Bountiful and the land Desolation, from the east to the west sea; and thus the land of Nephi and the land of Zarahemla were nearly surrounded by water, there being a small neck of land between the land northward and the land southward.

33 And it came to pass that the Nephites had inhabited the land Bountiful, even from the east unto the west sea, and thus the Nephites in their wisdom, with their guards and their armies, had hemmed in the Lamanites on the south, that thereby they should have no more possession on the north, that they might not overrun the land northward.

To explore the details of the above configuration with an accompanying internal model map, see the Internal Model of the Book of Mormon page.

Issues with the Heartland Model

Book of Mormon Heartland Map

The Book of Mormon heartland model is a model revamped and popularized by Rod Meldrum and associates which places the entirety of Book of Mormon narrative in the Eastern United States of America. It seems to have arisen in response to the issues in the “limited Mesoamerican model”. These includes issues such as the ‘two Cumorah’ theory, early prophetic and apostolic quotes about Book of Mormon culture & individuals in North America, as well as the way Mesoamerican models appear to discount the many impressive North American prehistoric cultures which seem to fit well into the Book of Mormon narrative. (Issues which are detailed later in this article)

Strengths

– The greatest strength of the heartland model for most it’s believers is it’s NOT having a second land Cumorah.  (See ‘Issues’ with the southern Mesoamerican model) Although it seems reasonable to suppose that the Book of Mormon’s final battle and ‘Hill Cumorah’, might not be the exact hill Joseph got the plates from, it is counter to Joseph Smith’s beliefs, and fairly problematic to suppose it is not at least relatively close to it, and at least in the the same land Cumorah. (see Cumorah in Internal Model of the Book of Mormon)

– References which obviously prophesy about the United States on ‘this land’ (ie. the land the ancient prophets lived on) simply work better for heartland. Although Mexico/Guatemala also work to some extent its simply not as good of a match for the description of a ‘land of liberty’ and U.S. revolutionary ‘freedom’ culture that seem to shine through so strongly in the text.

– Early LDS prophetic statements (as well as the account of ‘Zelph’) really work only if Nephites/Lamanites lived in North America too. (trying to make Zelph a post Nephite traveler & Joseph’s “hills of the Nephites” into post Book of Mormon migrants requires a certain level of stretching the available documentary evidence.)

– Basically see the “Issues” section for the Mesoamerican models, and you’ll see the “strengths” of the Heartland models.  The heartland model’s strengths are not so much in geography as in context, ideology, and prophesy associated with the Book of Mormon and early LDS leaders.

Issues

– IT LIMITS THE BOOK OF MORMON BY IGNORING THE CONTINENTS MOST IMPRESSIVE RUINS & ANCIENT CULTURES. Just like the Limited Mesoamerican model’s betrayal of Cumorah, Heartland models betray the general sense of a continental model given in the Book of Mormon text, which clearly gives the impression that Book of Mormon narrative encompasses the whole continent from sea to sea.  North to south (Canada to ancient Mesoamerican cultures) and east to west (New England to Southwest ancient cultures). 

there was much contention and many dissensions; in the which there were an exceedingly great many who departed out of the land of Zarahemla, and went forth unto the land northward to inherit the land. 8 And it came to pass that they did multiply and spread, and did go forth from the land southward to the land northward, and did spread insomuch that they began to cover the face of the whole earth, from the sea south to the sea north, from the sea west to the sea east. (Hel 3:8)

– THE LAND OF NEHPI, NARROW STRIP OF WILDERNESS & LAND OF BOUNTIFUL (& DESOLATION) SHOULD STRETCH FROM SEA EAST TO SEA WEST. The text clearly states that at least the land of Nephi, narrow strip of wilderness and land of Bountiful stretch fully from “sea east even to the sea west”, and strongly infer by movements of armies in the battle chapters of Alma 50-59 that the southern frontier of the Land of Zarahemla stretches from the east sea to west sea as well (further explained in a later point).

27 …the king sent a proclamation throughout all the land, amongst all his people who were in all his land [Land of Nephi]… which was bordering even to the sea, on the east and on the west, and which was divided from the land of Zarahemla by a narrow strip of wilderness, which ran from the sea east even to the sea west (Alma 22:27)

32 And now, it was only the distance of a day and a half’s journey for a Nephite, on the line Bountiful and the land Desolation, from the east to the west sea; and thus the land of Nephi and the land of Zarahemla were nearly surrounded by water… 33 And… the Nephites had inhabited the land Bountiful, even from the east unto the west sea… (see Alma 22:27–33)

It’s completely illogical to suggest the west sea of v. 32 (which heartlanders say is one or more of the Great Lakes, is different from the west sea of v. 32. given that ALL the lands are “nearly surrounded by water”. The heartland model’s Land of Nephi and narrow strip of wilderness and Land of Zarahamla are not “nearly surrounded by water” lacking the texts clear explanation of a sea to the west (see also Alma 53:8Alma 52:11–12Hel 3:8).  Those who try to explain these problems away by calling rivers, seas or part of the ‘surrounded by water’ are stretching the text beyond its limits.

– Alma 22:28 SUGGESTS THERE IS A SEA/SEASHORE WEST OF THE LAND OF ZARAHEMLA. The text is pretty clear that there is a seashore nearby, west of the land of Zarahemla. One that Moroni later kicks the Lamanites out of, when he creates the new border between the lands of Zarahemla and Nephi (Alma 53:8–22). And that the lands are “nearly surrounded by water”. So why would we use stretches of logic to suggest that the same west sea does not stretch from the land of Bountiful & Desolation down to the land of Nephi past the land of Zarahemla?

west of the land of Zarahemla, in the borders by the seashore… (Alma 22:28)

 – LAND OF FIRST INHERETANCE WAS ON A SEASHORE WEST OF THE LAND OF NEPHI (NOT SOUTH OR SOUTH-WEST). With the Eastern US heartland model, Nephi’s journey from eastern Arabia to America doesn’t really even make sense when the text says they land on a shore which they call first inheritance that was “west in the Land of Nephi” (not south in the Land of Nephi).   

“the Lamanites lived in the wilderness… west of the land of Zarahemla, in the borders by the seashore, and on the west in the land of Nephi, in the place of their fathers’ first inheritance, and thus bordering along by the [west] seashore. ” (Alma 22:28–29)

So if Lake Erie is the West Sea, how would they land there?  Where can you possibly place the Nephite landing “on borders by the seashore… on the west… and along the seashore” and make it fit with the Eastern United States?  Do we now pretend the Gulf of Mexico is both the sea south of Hel 3:8 and the sea west? Both Alma 22:28 and Mosiah 9:1 talk about the Land of Nephi and the “land of their first inheritance, after they had crossed the sea”, as if they can be used interchangeably. (ie. the Land of First Inheritance is IN or very near the land of Nephi.  We know the land of Nephi is south of the narrow neck.  So once again, how can ANY model which puts the narrow neck on the Great Lakes, or the land of Nephi in the heart of the US, make the place they first landed work? (pretending they came up the Mississippi also does not work, as the text clearly states the land of first inheritance is by the “WEST SEASHORE”.   Here we run into the same problem that Heartlanders blast Mesoamerican models for, where we must use stretches of logic to make a sea south (the Gulf of Mexico) into a sea west. Note also that had Moroni meant “southwest” he likely would have said so as in Alma 53:8, which specifies that the string of cities of Alma 51-53 began on the “west sea, south [border of the land of Nephite possessions]”. 

 – LOTS OF OTHER WEST SEA PROBLEMS. Many references to the West Sea run into this same problem. (See Alma 50:11Alma 52:12Alma 53:8Alma 22) Read through them here.

 – STORY OF HAGOTH MAKES LITTLE SENSE IN THE GREAT LAKES. Look carefully at the wording in the reference to Hagoth who took people to the Land Northward and note some of the issues with the Heartland Models idea that the “west sea” is one of the Great Lakes and the “land northward” is Canada.

5 And it came to pass that Hagoth… went forth and built him an exceedingly large ship, on the borders of the land Bountiful, by the land Desolation, and launched it forth into the west sea, by the narrow neck which led into the land northward. 6 And behold, there were many of the Nephites who did enter therein and did sail forth with much provisions, and also many women and children; and they took their course northward…  (Alma 63:5–9)

Since he builds the ship “on the borders of the land Bountiful, by the land Desolation”, that rules out the western lakes of Lake Superior & Michigan and leaves us only with Lake Huron as our ‘West Sea’ where Hagoth traveled.  But think of the logic?!  Verse 4 says THOUSANDS of people are heading to the land northward, so Hagoth exploits this mass exodus by helping bring provisions and hundreds more. But they travel 480 miles by foot, just to get on a boat that takes them ONLY 180 miles or so to the cold Canadian landscape?  It makes SO MUCH more sense to suggest 

The story of Hagoth makes little sense if the West Sea is the Great Lakes (and a completely different sea than the one mentioned concerning their first landing?). Hagoth is said to have “launched… forth into the west sea, by the narrow neck which led into the land northward” (Alma 63:5).  But how do the ‘Great Lakes’ even really get you access to the Heartland Model’s “land northward” When we know that the Land Northward is where Cumorah and the final Battle take place? Really, any of the lakes would only get you access the the Narrow Neck region’s of Bountiful and perhaps desolation (places in contact with Zarahemla), but the text suggest a LARGE distance saying that the people who left, “were never heard of more” (Alma 63:8). Reading the whole account in Alma 63:5–9, makes it clear that this model stretches the Book of Mormon text past it’s logical limits. Also, a Polynesian connection to Hagoth (as proposed by many LDS apostles) is impossible in the Heartland model.

 – LAND NORTHWARD MAKES NO SENSE IN CANADA. The land of Desolation which is an “exceedingly great distance” north from the Land of Zarahemla and Narrow Neck (Hel 3:8), also make very, very little sense if you try and place it in Canada. The text states that the land was the heartland of the Jaredite Civilization, covered in bones, and was “rendered desolate and without timber, because of the many inhabitants who had before inherited the land”  (Hel 3:3–8).  How can you get Eastern Canada to fit that description?  It is almost NOWHERE devoid of timber (until you get to the uninhabitable tundra). It has essentially NO evidence of a complex ancient civilization and certainly not one that was “exceedingly expert in the working of cement” (Hel 3:7). It is SO WET that bones disintegrate within a few years, and would be unlikely to be preserved the amount of time required by the text (from the Jaredite destruction to the Nephite exploration of the area).

 – CUMORAH IS NOT REALLY IN THE HEARTLAND MODEL’S LAND NORTHWARD. Cumorah is SOUTH (in the land southward) of the narrow neck in the Heartland Model. The logically problematic, two Cumorah theory of Sorenson’s model is one of the reason’s the Heartland Model gains supporters.  But yet the Heartland model introduces a greater problem by putting the Hill Cumorah in the Land Southward. (since their ‘Narrow Necks’ are the isthmus areas created by the Great Lakes). Mormon 2:20,29 makes it clear that the final Nephite retreat was “northward” from the Narrow Neck, and for at least 3 of the battle cities “in the borders west by the seashore” (Mormon 2:6–8Mormon 3:8 & Mormon 4:3).  There is ABSOLUTELY no indication that the Nephites fled north of the Narrow neck into the Land Northward (where a treaty was made giving them the land Northward, Mormon 2:17), only to then circle around a Great Lake and then back south through a different narrow neck, back into the Land Southward to upstate New York (Cumorah).  This logic slaughters the geography mentioned in the text.

 – MISSISSIPPI RIVER IS POOR MATCH FOR RIVER SIDON. The head of Sidon is south of Zarahemla, near the land of Manti (Alma 22:27,29Alma 43:22) which most heart landers equate with Huntsville Missouri, because of a Joseph Smith quote. This requires heartlanders to make the “head” of the river, either it’s mouth or delta — a definition completely contrary to the 1828 dictionary (see last definition: Head– “To originate; to spring; to have its source, as a river”). Or to use twist the meaning of the word head even farther equating it with a ‘confluence’ (of the Ohio & Mississippi arms). But even this simply doesn’t work with the geography laid out in Alma 56:25 where the “head of Sidon” is mention as being a reasonably distanced march from Nephihah, which Alma 51:26 places on the East Sea.

 – RIVER CROSSINGS ARE PROBLEMATIC. The bones of those thrown into the River Sidon are said to be carried to the “sea,” (Alma 3:3) which primarily refers to the Great Lakes in the Heartland Model.  The Mississippi flows into the Gulf of Mexico, far away from these “seas.” Even calling the Lakes and Ocean both ‘seas’, the same verses say the armies crossed the river Sidon before battling on its banks and then throwing bodies into it.  This suggests a river small enough to easily cross without canoes (Alma 2:34–35). But large and seasonally flooding enough to throw bodies into and know they will end up in the sea. 

 – The Heartland Model has the land Bountiful southeast of Zarahemla; the Book of Mormon has it northward. 

 – The Heartland Model elsewhere claims that Bountiful is directly north of the land of Nephi; in the Book of Mormon, Zarahemla is directly north of the land of Nephi.

 – The Book of Mormon has the sea west to the west of the Zarahemla and the land of Bountiful, but the Heartland Model has it east of Zarahemla and north of Bountiful.

 –  Heartland Model uses a city founded by Mormons near Nauvoo (named “Zarahemla) to locate the Nephite city of Zarahemla.  The model ignores that it was settlers who started calling it Zarahemla first, not scripture or Joseph Smith.  The lines about Zarahemla were added laterfor historical clarity, by an editor when the revelation was published.

 –  Likewise, a city called “Manti” was ascribed to the prophet by later editors, but it was not in the original text.

 –  Heartland Model relies on Hopewell cultural dates matching B.O.M. dates, but the locations of Zarahemla, Nephi, and Manti used in most models dont match any major Hopewell sites (are evidence of prehistoric settlement at all)!

 –  The Heartland Model poorly matches evidence and research on population sizes and growth.

Adapted from the more comprehensive list found at bmaf.  (first adapted from a list compiled by Gregory Smith)…

Issues with the Limited Mesoamerican or Mayanland Models

Book of Mormon Geography – Limited Mesoamerican Models

The majority of Mesoamerican Book of Mormon geography models seek to correlate the Isthmus of Tehuantepec or the Isthmus of Guatemala with the Book of Mormon “Narrow Neck”. In my analysis, I only cover the former, as the latter do not seem very plausible (although many of the issues below cover those models as well). Mesoamerican models in general far exceed the heartland models in their ability to synthesize the text with known archaeology. However, all of these models suffer many of the same substantial problems which gave rise to the Heartland models (ie. excluding 95% of the continent and its ancient cultures from the B.O.M. narrative as well as many prophetic statements and common-sense readings of the text). Despite the many issues listed below, I find the Usumacinta/Tonina/Kaminaljuyu the most convincing of the Mesoamerican models, and a true candidate for a valid possibility to the text; although still inferior to the continental model. Grijalva models come in third behind Usumacinta & Highland model, but only when 2 Cumorah ideas are discarded, and Sorenson’s ‘east cities’ stretch from Belize to Tehuantepec instead of all being all Tehuantepec.

Strengths

– The cultural correlations of the limited Mesoamerican models are fantastic. You could make 100 “strength bullet points” from these alone. Probably a few of the most unique are things like how Maya and their culture and climate fit well with many Book of Mormon statements. (Although forcing BOTH the Nephites and Lamanites (including Mulekites and all other ‘ites’) into the Mayan culture seems more monolithic than we should suppose.  If the Mulekites culturally evolved for hundreds of years completely separate from the Nephites, we should see that as a distinctly different culture should we not?).

– Kaminaljuyu (Guatemala City) as Nephi works pretty well both temporally and geographically.

– Tonina and Palenque are at least fair geographic matches for Zarahemla. Their relationship west of the Usumacinta River (Sidon) fits well with the text. Also their dates of establishment could possibly work with the text (200 BC). (However, their rise and fall does not fit well, as their populations seem abysmally small before the time of Christ, and only reach significance long after the time of Christ. — As opposed to Grijalva models which have abysmally small populations after the time of Christ).

– The isthmus of Guatemala and Motagua Valley/Ridge work fairly well as the ‘narrow strip of wilderness’ separating the lands of Nephi and Zarahemla. It’s an obvious geographic barrier, with the ‘head of Sidon’ (headwaters of the Usumacinta River) right there in the narrow wilderness strip where the text demands.

Issues
Like the Heartland model, Limited Mesoamerican Models must ignore the overwhelming consensus of Joseph Smith and other early prophetic views that supported a Continental model. A view strongly suggested by the Book of Mormon text itself (see Hel 3:8). Especially statements concerning Zelph and New England Nephite occupation. Also scriptural assertions that at least the land, if not hill, ‘Cumorah’ is in New England where the angel Moroni appeared to Joseph Smith in vision. Also the many, many instances in the Book of Mormon which essentially prophesy of a future nation of freedom (despite attempts to explain this away, it really is unmistakably includes the U.S.) being built upon the same lands as Mormon seemed to live on. Instead, they force the Book of Mormon into a small corner of Central America. They correlate all Book of Mormon lands and peoples with merely two Mesoamerican people’s (Maya & Olmec), while almost entirely ignoring the largest and most influential cultures on the continent (Adena, Hopewell, Anasazi/Ancient Puebloan, Mexican Highland/Teotihuacan, Zapotec, Mixtec, Huestec, Parapucha, etc).

– TWO CUMORAHS ARE CONTRADICTED BY 1 NEPHI 22/3 NEPHI 21 PROPHESIES – Putting the entirety of the Book of Mormon into a pocket of Mesoamerica without the Nephite ‘Land Northward’ being in the present United States, makes the statements and prophesies of Nephi illogical. According to Nephi, the “mighty nation” which is lifted up by God “above all other nations” (see 1 Nephi 13:30) was to be founded on “this land” and scatter “our seed”, and most importantly, be “set up as a free people” by God (3 Nephi 21:4). Mexico didn’t get its freedom from Spain until 1821, and by then it was among the weakest nations in the developed world. So suggesting this mighty nation of free people was Spain or Mexico just doesn’t make a lot of sense. The only rational interpretation of this and other similar scriptures is that Book of Mormon prophets considered the territory to be occupied by the future United States their land, and knew their seed would inhabit it. This is why the plates were hid in New York, not Mexico… because the destiny of the United States of America was founded on the promises made to Book of Mormon people who inhabited parts of the same land.

7 And it meaneth that the time cometh that after all the house of Israel have been scattered and confounded, that the Lord God will raise up a mighty nation among the Gentiles, yea, even upon the face OF THIS LAND; and by them shall our seed be scattered. (1 Nephi 22:7)

For it is wisdom in the Father that [the gentiles] should be established IN THIS LAND, and be set up as a free people by the power of the Father, that these things might come forth from them unto a remnant of your seed, (3 Nephi 21:4)

Two Cumorah proponents need to make up their minds. The question comes down to, is the modern US part of the ancient Nephites lands or not? (ie. part of what Mormon & Jesus would refer as “this land”) If no, the above scriptures make little sense. If yes–and its part of the Nephite “Land Northward” (see Alma 22:30–33; 46:22; 50:11, 29–34; 63:4–10; Helaman 3:3, 8–11), then it makes FAR more sense that Cumorah is in New York, since Mormon 2:29 calls the region the Nephite flee to “the land northward” AND its its in a land of many lakes streams and waters, AND its south of ‘great waters’ that ‘exceed all’. You CANNOT suggest Hel 3’s “whole earth” DOESN’T include North America, and yet suggest 1 Nephi 22:7 & 3 Nephi 21:4’s “this land” does! You must make up your mind!

And it came to pass that they did multiply and spread, and did go forth from the land southward to the land northward, and did spread insomuch that they began to cover the face of the whole earth, from the sea south to the sea north, from the sea west to the sea east. And the people who were in the land northward did dwell in tents, and in houses of cement… (Hel 3:8–9)

– TWO CUMORAHS ARE CONTRADICTED BY THE D&C AND JOSEPH SMITH – Just as Joseph Smith consistently pushed a continental model, he also consistently pushed the idea that the Hill Cumorah in New York where he claimed to find the plates was the same Cumorah mentioned in the Book of Mormon . D&C 128:20 seems to clearly insinuate that the Angel Moroni’s visit to Joseph Smith was at least in the land Cumorah. So even if one were to speculate that the hill Cumorah which Mormon hid ALL the Nephite records in his possession (Mormon 6:6 — probably in an old mine of some sort), “by” where the battle took place (Mormon 6:2), suggesting Cumorah is actually in Mexico is to make D&C 128:20 a false statement.

“20 And again, what do we hear? Glad tidings from Cumorah! Moroni, an angel from heaven, declaring the fulfilment of the prophets—the book to be revealed. A voice of the Lord in the wilderness of Fayette, Seneca county, declaring the three witnesses to bear record of the book! The voice of Michael on the banks of the Susquehanna…” (D&C 128:20)

– TWO CUMORAHS ARE CONTRADICTED BY MORONI 1:1. Although the text never calls the hill where Moroni buries his abridged plates ‘Cumorah’ think of the logic of two Cumorah’s in regard to Moroni 1:1 where he says,

“Now I, Moroni, after having made an end of abridging the account of the people of Jared, I had supposed not to have written more, but I have not as yet perished…” (Moroni 1:1)

…for I am alone. My father hath been slain in battle, and all my kinsfolk, and I have not friends nor whither to go; and how long the Lord will suffer that I may live I know not. (Mormon 8:5)

This suggests Moroni was unsure when he was going to be killed by Lamanites!  This is incredibly important, as we can assume from this that he almost certainly would have hidden the plates before the final battle, at the same time his father & other leaders hid ALL the records (Mormon 6:6), so as to not risk having the record falling into enemy hands before the last of the final battle! Mormon 6:12 says Moroni lead a legion of 10,000 in battle, so then even if Mormon 6:6 suggests that Mormon hid up “all the records… save it were [the] few plates which [he] gave unto [his] son”, we’ve got to imagine that Moroni dying with his 10,000 was a possibility so he must have put the abridged plates in their safe place where they could be found by the latter-day gentiles. (The abridged history being important that the Gentiles “have first” before God revealed the rest the records. 3 Ne 26:9)  Then… when he surprisingly doesn’t “perish”, he must have gone back to their hiding place, and ‘written more’ (Moroni 1:1).  So although idea that Moroni travelled long distances after the final battle is entirely plausible, The idea that he travelled long distances WITH the plates doesn’t make much sense. It would involve WAY TOO MUCH RISK of being killed on the journey and allowing the plates to fall into enemy hands (see Moroni 1:3–4Mormon 5:12). It would appear that he assured their safety by leaving them in their hiding place between the time(s) he went BACK to that hiding place and ‘wrote more’ (the Books of Ether &Mormon/ Moroni) before his final demise.

– TWO CUMORAHS ARE GENERALLY ILLOGICAL. Limited Mesoamerican Models require a “two Cumorah theory” (Mormon 6:2: vs D&C 128:20), where Moroni sneaks about alone trying not to be discovered (Mormon 8:3–5, Moroni 1:1–3) with the heavy plates over 1,900 miles after the final battle which they suggest happened somewhere in southern Veracruz Mexico to get to New York to bury the plates. While suggesting that Cumorah and the final battle are ONLY around 100 miles from the ‘Narrow Neck’, which requires the readers to believe that Mormon for some confusing reason, took all the records from the Hill Shim in desolation (when the Lamanites looked to ‘overthrow the land’- Mormon 4:23), only to transport them to a new random hill only 100 miles away. One which had very little strategic or geographic advantage, where they still exist to this day–completely separate from the region in upstate New York where the Book of Mormon would be buried for Joseph Smith.  Think about this–-when the early LDS saints fled from Ohio and Nauvoo; 30,000-70,000 people fled over 1,500 miles to find safety and a new home. In fact they traveled over 2100 miles over 17 years building several cities between New York & Utah. So why would 300,000 Nephites, flee only 100-250 miles building no traceable cities over a 50+ year period? Especially when a flight up the Caribbean coast toward Texas would have been so easy?!

The text gives no indication they were being hedged in from the north by some other group, and SURELY would say if a force larger than their 300,000 were hemming them in! Besides, with their massive army ready to make a stand or die, they surely would have attempted to cut their way through the Huestec lands in search for a northern land to settle. A last stand of such a huge group consisting of men, women and children really only makes sense if they were forced SO far north (ie. New York) that they reached the edge of the habitable continent and had nowhere left to flee because of Great Lakes (Ripliancum) and coming winter.  And since this is where the plates were found AND where prophetic visions put the last battle, WHY ON EARTH would anyone try and conceive a second Cumorah in Mexico only a few hundred miles from Zarahemla?!  This illogical proposal has effectively split the church and given birth to the even poorer heartland models. Those who believe and push this theory, do a great injustice to Book of Mormon geographic correlation.

The Lands of The Book of Mormon should be pretty obvious by their general description.

– LAND OF MANY WATERS OR LARGE BODIES OR ‘LARGE BODIES OF WATER AND MANY RIVERS IS OBVIOUSLY NORTHERN-MOST NORTH AMERICA (EASTERN US & CANADA).  It stretches one’s imagination to the limits to suggest that the following four verses in the Book of Mormon are referring somewhere like the Valley of Mexico or Vera Cruz.  The text says these locations are “an exceedingly great distance” from Zarahemla, and contained “many waters” and “many rivers” and “many large bodies of water”.  To cultures familiar with Lake Izabal and Lago de Ititlan in Guatemala or the Grijalva & Usumacinta river systems in Mexico to refer to the Lakes of the Mexican Highland such as Texcoco or Chapala in following manner is almost laughable when contrasted with the clearly obvious region around Joseph Smith’s ‘Cumorah’ of the Great Lakes or Rivers and springs of the Canadian shield or Upper Mississippi River systems.

3 And… there were an exceedingly great many who departed out of the land of Zarahemla, and went forth unto the land northward to inherit the land. 4 And they did travel to an exceedingly great distance, insomuch that they came to large bodies of water and many rivers. 5 Yea, and even they did spread forth into all parts of the land, (Hel 3:3–5)

29 Therefore, Morianton put it into their hearts that they should flee to the land which was northward, which was covered with large bodies of water, and take possession of the land which was northward. (Alma 50:29)

8 And they were lost in the wilderness for the space of many days, yet they were diligent, and found not the land of Zarahemla but returned to this land, having traveled in a land among many waters, having discovered a land which was… covered with ruins of buildings of every kind, having discovered a land which had been peopled with a people who were as numerous as the hosts of Israel. (Mosiah 8:8)

4 And it came to pass that we did march forth to the land of Cumorah, and we did pitch our tents around about the hill Cumorah; and it was in a land of many waters, rivers, and fountains (Mormon 6:4)

Below is a comparison of Guatamala’s Lago Izabel, in the Mayanland model’s Land of Nephi, compared to the Lakes of Coastal Veracruz and the Mexican Highland & Great Salt Lake and then the Great Lakes. As you can see, there’s not much

TIMBER BEING SCARSE IN THE LAND DESOLATION IS PROBLEMATIC. The land of Desolation is said to be desolate because of the Jaredites who were destroyed AND desolate “save it was for timber” or in other words it was desolate or devoid of timber so that the people who live in it had to “live in tents” and become expert in making “houses of cement”. Mayanland models must make the same case as Heartlanders in suggesting that regions which abound in wood and timber must have been “deforested” by the Jaredites in a manner that still left them without timber HUNDREDS of years later. This seems unlikely both in Heartlands Canada and Michigan Peninsula, as well as in Mayanlands south-central Mexico. More importantly, the use of cement in Oaxaca or the Mexican Highland was no more prevalent than its use in mayanlands making the following statement a bit problematic.

6 And now no part of the land was desolate, save it were for timber [in other words he’s using the definition of desolate meaning an area devoid of trees, not people]; but because of the greatness of the destruction of the people who had before inhabited the land it was called desolate. 7 And there being but little timber upon the face of the land, nevertheless the people who went forth became exceedingly expert in the working of cement; therefore they did build houses of cement, in the which they did dwell. 8 And it came to pass that they did multiply and spread, and did go forth from the land southward to the land northward, and did spread insomuch that they began to cover the face of the whole earth, from the sea south to the sea north, from the sea west to the sea east. 9 And the people who were in the land northward did dwell in tents, and in houses of cement, and they did suffer whatsoever tree should spring up upon the face of the land that it should grow up, that in time they might have timber to build their houses, yea, their cities, and their temples, and their synagogues, and their sanctuaries, and all manner of their buildings. 10 And it came to pass as timber was exceedingly scarce in the land northward, they did send forth much by the way of shipping. (Hel 3:6–11)

Both the Mayan and Mexican Highland cultures really PREDOMINATELY built their temples and city centers of stone. With few exceptions, their homes were primarily wood. Really only the Desert Southwest was desolate of timber to the point of mostly using teepees, wikiups or stone and cement (adobe) for ALL aspects of cultural building. And really only the US Plains Indians could be said to have culturally lived predominately in ‘tents’ or teepees.

– WEST COAST HAGOTH MAKES NO SENSE. The story of Hagoth traveling to “the land Northward” from the west sea, just doesn’t make much sense in these models. If the Land Northward is composed of areas like the Mexican Highland, Valley of Mexico or southern area of Veracruz, then why would Hagoth launch from the west sea to get there? Only the East Sea would get you closer to these areas. It makes no sense both from a launch point and destination route. If the Nephite ‘Land Northward is Veracruz, and if Sidon is the Usumacinta/Grijalva which go directly to the Caribbean, why not boat down Sidon to the port and head north along the East Coast?

Similarly, if Zarahemla is the Chiapas basin (Santa Rosa) why not leave from the harbors just west of there? Why go so far from the good lumber of the Chiapas mountains and go all the way up to Bountiful? A west coast of Bountiful launch ONLY MAKES SENSE if Zarahemla is on the Usamacinta, and the ‘Land Northward’ includes West Mexico, the known trade routes into the southwest U.S. Anasazi lands through the gulf of California, and perhaps the entire west coast of America.

And it came to pass… there was a large company of men, even to the amount of five thousand and four hundred men, with their wives and their children, departed out of the land of Zarahemla into the land which was northward. And it came to pass that Hagoth, he being an exceedingly curious man, therefore he went forth and built him an exceedingly large ship, on the borders of the land Bountiful, by the land Desolation, and launched it forth into the west sea, by the narrow neck which led into the land northward. And behold, there were many of the Nephites who did enter therein and did sail forth with much provisions, and also many women and children; and they took their course northward. And thus ended the thirty and seventh year. And in the thirty and eighth year, this man built other ships. And the first ship did also return, and many more people did enter into it; and they also took much provisions, and set out again to the land northward. And it came to pass that they were never heard of more. And we suppose that they were drowned in the depths of the sea. And it came to pass that one other ship also did sail forth; and whither she did go we know not. 9 And it came to pass that in this year there were many people who went forth into the land northward. (Alma 63:4–9)

– VERY FEW GOOD CITY MATCHES WITH SIGNIFICANT ARCHAEOLGICAL SITES. Although Mayan models do a good job at finding cultural correlations, none of them have done a very good job at really matching individuals Book of Mormon cities with notable archaeological ruins (with the exception of Kaminaljuyú). In my opinion, none of them can match Zarahemla with convincing archaeological ruins which match the level of prominence and significance afforded these cities in the text. Particularly in the case of Zarahemla and Sorenson’s Santa Rosa. Santa Rosa is pathetically small (< 20k), smaller than his match for Sidon (Chiapa de Corzo). I love what Michael Coe says here about BOM cities.. he hits it right on the head when he talks about how the Valley of Mexico really was the only Mesoamerican region with Old World-like populations and features like the Book of Mormon insinuates, in the Mesoamerican pre-classic.

– MANY OF THE SPECIES IN THE ANIMAL LISTS IN THE BOOK OF MORMON ARE OUT OF PLACE SOUTH OF TEOHUANTEPEC. See my article Animals in the Book of Mormon for examples of this. Specific differentiation between animals like asses (mule deer) and horses (elk, possible white tailed deer), and goats (pronghorn) verses wild goats (North American Mountain Goat), sheep (North American mountain sheep, which are on the Jaredite list and never ranged far into Mexico) as well as “cattle, of oxen, and cows” (bison, possibly tapir, musk ox) are incredibly problematic if you put the whole book of Mormon south of Tehuantepec (especially in the Jaredite list).

– MAYANLAND MODELS DO NOT HAVE ANY ARCHAEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE OF NORTHERN LANDS BEING ‘EMPTIED’, ABANDONED OR DESTROYED. These models usually identify Veracruz or the Mexican Highland as “the land northward”… yet in Mormon’s description of the final flight to “Cumorah”, the land northward is said to be emptied of its inhabitants (Mormon 5:5).

4 And it came to pass that they came against us again, and we did maintain the city. And there were also other cities which were maintained by the Nephites, which strongholds did cut them off that they could not get into the country which lay before us, to destroy the inhabitants of our land. 5 But it came to pass that whatsoever lands we had passed by, and the inhabitants thereof were not gathered in, were destroyed by the Lamanites, and their towns, and villages, and cities were burned with fire; and thus three hundred and seventy and nine years passed away. 7 …and those whose flight was swifter than the Lamanites’ did escape, and those whose flight did not exceed the Lamanites’ were swept down and destroyed.

We see no such occurrence in the archaeology.  In fact that logic of the final battle MAKES NO SENSE given what we know of Teotihuacan. Why wouldn’t the Nephites make an alliance with them, if they were part of their northern ally cultures which they had been ‘guarding’ (ie. protecting the narrow neck – Alma 22:33) for nearly a thousand years? It also makes no sense in relation to the final Battle… why did Teotihuacan not get involved if the Nephites fled into their land in Veracruz to escape the Lamanite army?

–  HOW COULD THE ZAPOTEC & TEOTIHUACAN EMPIRES BE OMITTED FROM THE BOOK OF MORMON WHEN THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN SO INCREDIBLY RELEVENT TO THE REGION? Teotihuacan and the Mexican highland culture, the largest and most influential city and culture in prehistoric North America, is mysteriously scant or absent from the Book of Mormon in these models (as well as Zapotec culture). Even though the Teotihuacano zenith might have post-dated the date given for Nephite destruction, it was still a rapidly growing regional influence which by 420 AD eclipsing any of the cultures put forth for Zarahemla in predominate Mayan models.

SAYING THE ZAPOTECS & TEOTIHUACANOS ARE GADIANTONS MAKES THE IDEA OF GUARDING THE NARROW NECK ILLOGICAL. The guarding of the “narrow neck” in preservation of “the land northward” doesn’t make much sense in these models for reasons mentioned above. For instance, what culture are they guarding? Teotihuacan? The Zapotecs? That’s like Guatemala guarding the United States! Even at 100 BC, the Zapotec, and cities of the Mexican Highland (Cuicuilco, Cholula, Teotihuacan area) was FAR more populous and powerful than anything along the Grijalva or Usumacinta. Those empires would have been guarding/dominating the Nephite lands, not the other way around. Teotihuacan was the most powerful hegemon on the continent by 300 AD, so if they are the Nephites in the land Northward, why didn’t they aid the Nephites in the Final Battle, and why does the text describe a scene where the Nephites after retreating from Zarahemla and desolation “did cut [the Lamanites] off that they could not get into the country which lay before us, to destroy the inhabitants of our land” (Mormon 5:4). If Teotihuacan is the land northward, THE TEOTIHUACANOS would have sent an army and squashed the Lamanite forces. From all we can tell from the archaeology, Teotihuacan was the regional hegemon. (Remember that Mormon was from Jordan near the Narrow Neck, and there is simply nothing in the text to forward the idea that Monte Alban, Teotihuacan or any highland cultures helped in the war–had they helped in the war the tens of thousands of Nephite woman and children SURELY would have been sent there before the final battle instead of fighting to the death with no hope like cornered animals as the text suggests).

THE ZAPOTECS & TEOTIHUACANOS AS GADIANTONS DOES NOT FIT THE TEXT OR THE ARCHAEOLOGY. Note the Book of Mormon clearly paints the Gadianton robbers or ‘band’ as mountain dwelling guerilla band as well as a mafia like secrete society which dwells WITHIN the Nephite and Lamanite societies. The text does not suggest they are a full fledged independent nation or empire like the Lamanite or Nephite nation, and their one attempt to create a city or polity is explicitly destroyed by God at the death of Christ (3 Ne 9:9). To suggest Jacobugath and the Gadiantons go on to become two of the largest and most influential empire nations on the continent does not honor the picture painted in the Book of Mormon. Teotihuacan is founded by at least 100 BC, beginning its monumental architecture by 50 BC, and reaching its Zenith by 350 AD. Read these descriptions carefully and then lets compare this with the Zapotec & Teotihuacan empires and cultures.

23 And it came to pass in the forty and ninth year of the reign of the judges, there was continual peace established in the land, all save it were the secret combinations which Gadianton the robber had established in the more settled parts of the land, which at that time were not known unto those who were at the head of government; therefore they were not destroyed out of the land. (Hel 3:23)

18 And now behold, those murderers and plunderers were a band who had been formed by Kishkumen and Gadianton. And now it had come to pass that there were many, even among the Nephites, of Gadianton’s band. But behold, they were more numerous among the more wicked part of the Lamanites. And they were called Gadianton’s robbers and murderers. (Hel 6:18)

1 …the Gadianton robbers, who dwelt upon the mountains, who did infest the land; for so strong were their holds and their secret places that the people could not overpower them; therefore they did commit many murders, and did do much slaughter among the people.” (3 Ne 1:27), 17 …and…the war between the robbers and the people of Nephi did continue and did become exceedingly sore; nevertheless, the people of Nephi did gain some advantage of the robbers, insomuch that they did drive them back out of their lands into the mountains and into their secret places. (3 Ne 2:17)

18 And these Gadianton robbers, who were among the Lamanites, did infest the land, insomuch that the inhabitants thereof began to hide up their treasures in the earth; and they became slippery, (Mormon 1:18)

There is only one indication in the Book of Mormon that the Gadianton Robbers start their own culture or city (3 Ne 7:9–12). But this city is not created until ~30 AD, and then is burned or destroyed at the death of Christ (3 Ne 9:9). There is certainly no indication that they pioneer or take over multiple empires which are among THE MOST POWERFUL EMPIRES ON THE CONENTENT both before and after the time of Christ. Note the Zapotecs of San Jose Migote, Monte Alban and the Valley of Oaxaca are founded around 1200-600 BC, and by 300 BC already likely are the largest militaristic society in the Americas at the time (see here). Indeed, orders of magnitude larger and more powerful than emerging Mayan societies like Kaminaljuyu (City of Nephi in his model) or Chiapa de Corzo/Santa Rosa (land of Zerahemla in his model) during formative times. Likewise the central cities of the Teotihuacan empire grown out of formative cities like Cuicuilco, Ticomán, El Terremote, Coapexco, El Arbolillo and Chalcatzingo; all of which were established around 1000 BC with close ties to Olmec cultures and which mostly continued into classic times and had grown into an empire for larger than anything existing in the Mayanlands by 300 AD.

The only indication The Book of Mormon gives that there could be an alliance between the Lamanites of the final battles and some other group is Mormon 1 & 2 where the Gadianton robbers who are said to be “among the Lamanites” (Mormon 1:18), seem to be involved in both the fighting and a ten year treaty. But read the verse concerning this carefully and note how crazy it would be for Mormon to omit the fact that the Gadiantons (Teotihuacahn & Zapotec Empires) actually owned essentially ALL the land north of the final battle and were hemming in their position (as most 2 Cumorah proponents propose concerning the final battle).

18 And these Gadianton robbers, who were among the Lamanites, did infest the land… (Mormon 1:18)

27 …But behold, we did go forth against the Lamanites and the robbers of Gadianton, until we had again taken possession of the lands of our inheritance. 28 And the three hundred and forty and ninth year had passed away. And in the three hundred and fiftieth year we made a treaty with the Lamanites and the robbers of Gadianton, in which we did get the lands of our inheritance divided. 29 And the Lamanites did give unto us the land northward, yea, even to the narrow passage which led into the land southward. And we did give unto the Lamanites all the land southward. (Mormon 2:27–29)

What those proposing that the Zapotecs and Teotihuacanos are ‘Gadianton Robbers’ are suggesting is that this verse should read, “the Lamanites did give unto us the [tiny portion of the land northward along the east sea], yea, even to the narrow passage which led into the land southward. And we did give unto the Lamanites all the land southward [and we did remain hemmed in, leaving the Gadiantons possessing essentially ALL the land north of us because they were indeed far too large and powerful for us with our 300,000 to attempt to fight with].

GRIJALVA AND UCUMACINAT SIZE COULD BE AN ISSUE. The Usumacinta rivers seem a little to big to match with what the Book of Mormon describes of the River Sidon being seemingly easily crossed by the Nephites & Amlicites near Zarahemla (Alma 2:27–35). The river needs to be small enough for a “numberless army” to easily cross, but big enough to carry away thousands of corpses to the sea (Alma 3:3). The river also needs to be in a deep canyon near where the battle and crossing took place. And should also form a border of sorts in its areas south of Zarahemla (Alma 22:27; see also Sidon in the Internal Model of the Book of Mormon). The Grijalva on the other hand needs to have its ‘head’ or main headwaters near the land and city of Manti. But in the Sorenson model, La Libertad, his match for Manti is on a small, minor central tributary of the Grijalva which isn’t a great match for the ‘head’ or headwaters of the River, which are far to the southwest.

Also suggesting rivers that travel northward as the Grijalva and Usumacinta both do, makes the idea of throwing thousands of dead bodies in the river (which then would float through the land of Zarahemla) a bit counterintuitive (see Alma 3:3).- Attempting to match the Umacinta river with Sidon, and somewhere like Palenque with Zarahemla makes the hill Amnihu, which was west of both Zarahemla and the River Sidon, problematic also. As there literally NO hills west of that locations.  So then you have to shoot for large sites farther south like Tonina or Yaxchilan.  But even then he city of Gideon is also a problem for essentially all Usumacinta models, as there are no sizable archaeological sites just west of Sidon yet still on the way to Nephi (Guatamala city). These issues are more minor and can be overcome with nuanced readings of the text.

MODELS WHICH PLACE BOUNTIFUL IN BELIZE ARE PROBLEMATIC. Likewise, models place bountiful south of Belize which accords well enough with verses which describe the land/city of bountiful as being “north of Zarahemla (see Alma 22).  But those directions break down in Alma 50:34, when Moroni chases Morianton “and not head them until they had come to the borders of the land Desolation; and there they did head them, by the narrow pass which led by the sea into the land northward, yea, by the sea, on the west and on the east.”   If Bountiful is correctly “North” then surely this should also say, “by the sea on the north and on the south”.  Using tehuantepec as a narrow neck has serious direction issues.  Furthermore, WHERE THEN IS the sea north thats mentioned in (ref)? if its not the Caribbean in this area?

ALMA 52:9 IS A BIT PROBLEMATIC IN ALL MAYANLAND MODELS. The east sea cities in this model don’t make a whole lot of sense.  Take Alma 52:9, for instance. It says “he also sent orders unto him that he should fortify the land Bountiful, and secure the narrow pass which led into the land northward, lest the Lamanites should obtain that point and should have power to harass them on every side.”   We see that bountiful is a fort which secures the narrow pass. So if Bountiful is in Belize, this makes no sense. This verse accords with others that suggests that bountiful is both on the east sea, and on the narrow pass leading to desolation.

If on the other hand you put bountiful and the east sea cities in the Tabasco and Tehuantepec area, you have a major issue with directions such as (ref), that say Jershon? Nephihah? is east of the Land of Zarahemla. They’d have to be crazy to think north-WEST is east. Furthermore, there’s just not much evidence of fortifications in that area, and the BOM says basically ALL those cities were fortified. 

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The traditional New England Cumorah correlation is FAR less problematic than the Mesoamerica 2 Cumorah theory.

SUMMARY OF WHY THE MESOAMERCAN CUMORAH (M2C) THEORY IS A POOR FIT TO THE TEXT.

Much like the Heartland Theory the Mesoamerican 2 Cumorah Theory is a needless distraction. It solves very few problems and creates many. Perhaps above all it necessitates the creation of some type of “Heartland theory” to fill in the holes left by the following issues which arise from excluding the United States and most of North America from being part of the Book of Mormon.
– Mesoamerican Cumorah directly contradicts D&C 128:20 and the prophetic visions and beliefs of Joseph Smith concerning New York and the United States as part of the Land of Promise and its ancient inhabitants being part of the Book of Mormon.
– A Mesoamerican Cumorah essentially makes Joseph Smith a fool with his vision of Zelph the “white Lamanite warrior” being false. To suggest otherwise is to ignore or irrationally explain away an enormous amount of evidence such as Joseph Smith’s letter to Emma where the area Zelph was found is described as “the plains of the Nephites… [where we roved] over the mounds of that once beloved people of the Lord, picking up their skulls & their bones, as a proof of its divine authenticity.” Note also Heber C. Kimball’s journal (which is cooperated by several other sources) states specifically that Joseph framed his information on Zelph as coming “in a vision”, and that it identifies both Cumorah, and the area of Illinois as being associated with the final Nephite battle.

“Brother Joseph had a vision respecting the person. He said he was a white Lamanite. The curs was taken from him or at least in part. He was killed in battle with an arrow. The arrow was found among his ribs. One of his thigh bones was broken. This was done by a stone flung from a sling in battle years before his death. His name was Zelph… Zelph was a large thick set man and a man of God. He was a warrior under the great prophet Onandagus that was known from the hill Camorah or east sea to the Rocky mountains. The above knowledge Joseph received in a vision.” (Journal of Wilford Woodruff)
“It was made known to Joseph that he had been an officer who fell in battle, in the last destruction among the Lamanites, and his name was Zelph. This caused us to rejoice much, to think that God was so mindful of us as to show these things to his servant. Brother Joseph had enquired of the Lord and it was made known in a vision.” (Journal of Heber C. Kimball)

1 Ne 22:7 & 1 Ne 13:30 say specifically that “god will raise up a mighty nation among the gentiles… on the face of THIS land, and by them SHALL OUR SEED BE SCATTERED.” Putting the Book of Mormon heartland AND the Nephite’s Land Northward & Cumorah in a corner of south & central Mexico instead of Mexico AND the US makes these prophecies essentially false or at least misleading. (which is undoubtedly why not a single LDS prophet or apostle have supported the 2 Cumorah theory, and several have actively taught against it.
– Also a Mesoamerican Cumorah in Veracruz or the Mexican Highland is not an “exceedingly great distance” from the Land of Zarahemla (as stated in Hel 3:4), given that neither the Land of Nephi NOR ANY OTHER LAND is said to be so superlatively far away from the Nephite population center.
– Also no other land in North America matches as well as the Eastern US & Great Lakes region as a land of large bodies of water and many rivers (Hel 3:3–5, Alma 50:29) or a land of many waters, rivers, and fountains (Mormon 6:4). As noted from the perspective of one likely familiar with the MANY large rivers, fountains and lakes of southern Mexico and Guatemala. (Hel 3:5)
– The Great Lakes are certainly the best match for the “the waters of Ripliancum, which, by interpretation, is large, or to exceed all“, which were near the land Cumorah (Ether 15:8)
– Only the Great Lakes are near a true “sea north” (Hel 3:8). Especially given the “nephite north” of most Mesoamerican models.
– Northernmost Mexico and North America’s southwest are a better match than Mesoamerica for the Land Northward’s part of the “Land of Desolation” which was “desolate, save it were for timber… being but little timber upon the face of the land, nevertheless the people who went forth became exceedingly expert in the working of cement; therefore they did build houses of cement, in the which they did dwell.” (Hel 3:6–7) Note that the Maya built with just as much or more cement in their adobe houses and monumental architecture as the Teotihuacanos, Olmec or Zapotec.
– The U.S. Midwest is the best match for a culture of people who did “dwell in tents.” (Hel 3:9) Also Joseph Smith is quoted as associating the Great Plains as well as Desert Southwest/Northern Mexico as Desolation. (see J.S. quotes on B.O.M. geography)
– A Mesoamerican Cumorah makes the SOUTHWARD flight of few surviving Nephites after the final battle go directly back into enemy controlled territory. (Mormon 8:2)
– A Veracruz Cumorah makes the eastward directionality of Omer’s flight which lasted many days” between the Hill Shim & the seashore, essentially unworkable, since the coast is only 20 miles or so from the coast. (Ether 9:3) One might suggest the many days was from Moron (La Venta area) to Cumorah (Tres Zapotes area), but even this doesn’t work, because the Egyptian-based ‘Nephite North’ of M2C wouldn’t exist with the Jaredites, so this would make going “from thence eastward… [to] the seashore” essentially backtracking which doesn’t make much sense. Nor does the later account of Cumorah being “southward” of “the waters of Ripliancum, which, by interpretation, is large, or to exceed all” make sense in this scenario (Ether 15:8–10).
– A Mesoamerican Cumorah requires all Jaredites to have been in the small area of Tehuantepec Mesoamerica also, which makes the over 2-4 MILLION deaths of the final battle possible, but questionable. (Ether 15:2,14)
– A Veracruz Cumorah might make the moving of ALL THE NEPHITE RECORDS from the Hill Shim to Hill Cumorah a bit illogical (a distance of LESS than a hundred miles or so – Mormon 4:23). Both Cumorah and Shim were “about to be overthrown” (Mormon 4:23), why not just leave the records hidden in Shim, unless you were planning on truly taking them far enough away to a completely different region where the Nephites hoped to establish a new home? (Mormon 4:22)
– If tens of thousands of early LDS saints fled 2,160 miles by foot from New York to Ohio to Nauvoo to Utah IN 17 YEARS, building dozens of cities along the way, Why would hundreds of thousands of Nephites or millions of Jaredites only flea 100 MILES OR SO over 30+ years, building no new archaeological traceable cities/culture along the way? Why not instead supposed they fled the 2600 miles to New England and build up the Hopewell archaeological ruins along the way?
– If the Book is all south of Oaxaca then there are SERIOUS issues with the animal lists mentioned for BOTH the Nephites & Jaredites. (see my article here)
– If the Book of Mormon has nothing to do with North America, why would God have Moroni burry it in New York? Why not save time and burry it in Nauvoo or Utah?!?
– If Moroni wasn’t sure whether he’d die or not in the final Battle (Moroni 1:1). And Mormon WAS killed in battle (Mormon 8:5), then WHY ON EARTH would Moroni not bury the plates BEFORE the final battle (as the text suggest he did in Mormon 6:6). Then he goes back and “writes more” after he miraculously doesn’t die (Mormon 1:1).
– If Cumorah is southern Veracruz, where on earth was the “towns and villages” of Mormon 4:22–23, or the “strongholds” and “towns and villages and cities” in the “country which lay before us” after the battle for Jordan? (Mormon 5:4–7). All the fortresses and strongholds of the epi-Olmec are north of Tres Zapotes (the M2C Cumorah area), and dont match the BOM timeline.
–If Cumorah and the Land Northward does not include North America, why did Hagoth leave from the west coast of Bountiful to take thousands of people “TO THE LAND NORTHWARD” (see Alma 63:5–9)? How does that gain faster access to Veracruz or the Mexican Highland or any of areas that the 2 Cumorah model suggests are the Land Northwards? A west coast launch point only makes sense to access Northwest Mexico, the Gulf of California (and thus the Anasazi land which we know traded with Mesoamerica) and the west coast of North America.
Ether 10:19–21 says Lib “built a great city by the narrow neck”, and then “preserved the land southward for a wilderness, to get game”, allowing only “the land northward [to be] covered with inhabitants”. This seems to suggest that at some point in Jaredite narrative, their culture moved from the land of Moron (was near the land which is called Desolation by the Nephites — Ether 7:6) to a more northern location. Perhaps somewhere far to the north such as the Poverty Point culture, Watson Break, Woodland Culture & Adena cultures. Although by the final war, the narrative seems to move back to the land of Moron (Ether 14:6) the shear number of deaths (2 Million+ before the final gathering even starts from Ether 14:24–31 & Ether 15:1–3) suggest it could be a long time and a long ways until they finally end up near “the waters of Ripliancum, which, by interpretation, is large, or to exceed all” (Ether 15:8) which is NORTH (Ether 15:10) of, and “by” the hill Rama which is “that same hill where my father Mormon did hide up the records unto the Lord” (Ether 15:10).
– Some presume the final Jaredite battle must have been close to Moron where the Jaredites lived. However, this forgets that the Mulekites, Nephites & Jaredites COEXISTED for at least a few hundred years before the Jaredite final battle with the ONLY record of interaction being Coriantumr’s 9 month say with the Mulekites. The fact that Limhi’s exploration party found the Jaredite land littered with bones gives us an approximate age of the Jaredite final battle since they departed between 160-120 BC, and bones only last a few decades before disintegrating in wet climates. With Ether 15:2 reporting 2 million war casualties before the Jaredite war even begins to wind down, IT IS HIGHLY UNLIKELY THAT THE JAREDITE CAPITOL WAS VERY NEAR THE MULEKITE OR NEPHITE POPULATION CENTERS. If they were close, it would be strange not to have gotten involved in the war or at least known about it. Especially with sites like the Mirador Basin, Izapa & other obvious Olmec dated archaeological sites being so close to the land of Nephi & Zarahemala of Mayanland models! And we can’t really assume the land of dried bones where the Limhite exploration party found the plates was in an ARID environment since it seems to have been a land of ‘many waters’ suggesting a lot of rainfall (see Mosiah 8:8)
– The location of Uto-Aztecan languages not only matches well with the early Aztec myths concerning their journey’s from Aztlan (see my article on Ixlilxochitl), but also with quotes by Joseph Smith identifying the Great Plains and Desert Southwest of the Four Corners and Northern Mexico with the Book of Mormon’s land of Desolation where as Mosiah Hancock put it, Joseph said “the Nephites lost their power” (see Mormon 4:18)

The Uto-Aztecan language group clearly suggests the association and migration of peoples from the Mexican Highland to the Desert Southwest and Plains area of the United States near Independence Missouri.

A few problems when comparing 2 Cumorah models to the text of Alma 22.

1. The first of which concerns the River Sidon which doesn’t quite seem to fit with the configuration of the Grijalva River according to some clues in the chapter. For instance verse 27 says “through the borders of Manti, by the head of the river Sidon, running from the east towards the west.”

We cant be sure, but it definitely sounds like he’s saying that the river Sidon generally runs “from the east to the west”. Just like the narrow strip of wilderness mentioned earlier in the verse that forms the border between the Nephite & Lamanite lands. If true, this is problematic for the Grijalva river given the “Nephite North” (or idea that Nephite directions were rotated by 90 degrees to ours) needed to make the model fit the text.

An east to west “border-like” configuration of the river is supported by the fact that many references to the river refer to armies and people crossing it as they move from the Land of Zarahemla to the land of Nephi (see Alma 16:6, Alma 2, Alma 43).

We know that the river’s “head” or source lies “up beyond” the land of Manti (Alma 16:6–7; 22:27). We also know it has east & west banks near Manti (Alma 2:27,34).

We also learn in Alma 22 that it quite likely may have a second “head” near the Land of Bountiful. In verse 27, the river’s head is again mentioned saying, “nevertheless the Nephites had taken possession of all the northern parts of the land bordering on the wilderness, at the head of the river Sidon, from the east to the west, round about on the wilderness side; on the north, even until they came to the land which they called Bountiful.”

Once again, we can’t be sure because of the complicated sentence structures, but it sounds here that Mormon is reiterating that the River generally runs “from the east to the west”, but in this case has a head in “on the north,” near the region of bountiful.

This reading matches well with the configuration of the Balsas/Mixtec River of Central Mexico. (One of Mexico’s most economically & historically important rivers), but doesn’t seem to fit great with the Grijalva depending on your interpretation.

Reasons why many believe in the Mesoamerican M2C Theory

– NEW ENGLAND IS TOO FAR FROM MESOAMERICA FOR REFUGEES TO TRAVEL. Many find it hard to believe a group as large as the hundreds of thousands of Nephites and/or Jaredites who died in the final battles could or would travel that far. However this same poor reasoning would force a disbelief that the tens of thousands of Mormon pioneers traveled 2,100 miles from New York to Utah, or the estimated 300,000 plus people traveled the 2,200 mile long Oregon trail from 1841 to 1868, or the known records of hundreds of thousands of Goths who fled thousands of miles to escape the Hunnic invasions of Rome in the 2nd century AD or even the hundreds of thousands or even millions of Syrian refugees who recently migrated to Europe or the many other examples of long distance refuges. Indeed when comparing historic analogs, its the idea that the Nephites & Jaredites only fled 200 miles or less to avoid genocide which becomes hard to believe.
– ALSO TOO FAR FOR LIMHITE SEARCH PARTY. Believing 2000-3000 miles seems to far for the Limhite search party who found the Jaredite 24 plates amid a land of “many waters… covered with bones of men, and of beasts, and… with ruins of buildings of every kind” (Mosiah 8:8) has two poor assumptions. First, see this map of early American explorers (earlier in this article) to see how common many thousand miles exploration treks were. Given the history of notable ‘exploration parties’, its far less likey these “determined” explorers, who were lost “many days in the wilderness” traveling in a “land of many waters” only went a few hundred miles. Secondly since we don’t know where Ether hid the plates, we have no idea how far they traveled. It could have been near the final battle, or Ether could have brought them back to south to Moron. (Ether 15:10)
– CORIANTUMR COULDN’T WANDER THOUSANDS OF MILES WHEN INJURED. This is again poor logic. Wherever he went he likely allowed himself to heal before traveling. And his only living “9 moons” with the Mulekites could suggest he was now an old man. Either way, doesn’t it make sense he would head back to the land of Moron or Jaredite heartland to see if anyone was still alive? In fact, Alma 22:30–31 suggests the Mulekits surveyed the Jaredite destruction shortly after the final battle “it being the place of their first landing.” This wording seems to suggest multiple landings, and allows all sorts of wild plausible speculations such as perhaps the Mulekites sailing from a Phoenician port to Spain or England to settle for a few hundred years. And then coming to America and finding Coriantumr in a short-lived northern settlement much like Jamestown. And then after abandoning that “coming up into the south wilderness” where it was written on a rock and transformed into legend (Alma 22:31; Omni 1:20–21)
– OMER AND HIS HOUSEHOLD FLEE PAST CUMORAH. Once again this is poor logic to suggest a royal family fleeing for their lives would only go a hundred miles or so. Mulek fled some 10,000 miles for this exact same reason. Additionally, the fact that Omer fled “east” for “many days” doesn’t work well with a Mesoamerican Cumorah which is west and north of the olmec lands.
– THE EAST SEASHORE. There is a seashore mentioned “east” of Cumorah and Rama. (refs). This actually goes against a 2 cumorah theory since mesoamerican cumorah’s are northwest… (finish)
– ARMY LOGISTICS. Some say the logistics of a large army travelling our of their domain in Mesoamerica to New England makes no sense. This in an incredibly poor argument given what we know of the final battle of the Book of Mormon. If the final battle had any indication of being about land or political power the argument might be fair. But the book of Mormon gives the logic for the final battle (which seems to have changed from the early parts of the war, after the Nephite elite cede their land and sign the 10 year treaty), and makes it clear that by the time of the final battle (which at that point may have had different players than the initial players of Mormon 1 in Zarahemla, 57 years previous to the end) the war was solely about genocide towards those holding a religious belief. “Because of their HATRED they put to death every Nephite that will not deny the Christ…” (Moroni 1:2–3)
Were the battle against the Nephites about land, the Lamanites would have stopped once the Nephites abandoned land after land, but instead they pursue them even after they flee to and then abandon the Nephite frontier “cities” and “strongholds” of the “country which lay before us” (north of desolation in the land northward of Mormon 5:4–7).

Just the fact that they annihilate every man woman and child should keyus into the fact that this is likely not just a typical war between “city states”. (unlike the wars of the book of Alma & Helaman) Much like the Jaredite final battle this is an atypical war of annihilation. So the most sound logic follows that the Nephites are going to run AS FAR AS POSSIBLE to keep their wives and children and selves from having to fight or dying from said genocide.

Also as far as logistics, there’s plenty of examples in history of armies with infantry travelling thousands of miles. (Romans, Alexander, Mongols, Huns, etc, etc). Even without horses, the logistics aren’t hard if you are relying on looting to feed your troops so you don’t need supply lines. (which we don’t even know how many they were… it may be they were more like 100,000 Lamanite/Gadianton men vs. the Nephites 250,000 men women & children) Furthermore… we don’t know where they were from! For all we know, the vast majority of Nephites AND Lamanites of the final battle were (by the end) all from the Hopewell area. At least we have good archaeological evidence of a social collapse there… something that the Mayan lands and Veracruz COMPLETELY LACKS at 380 AD.

Issues with the Sorenson Model (& all others which put all B.O.M. ‘east coast cities’ on the north coast of Tehuantepec)

The Sorensen Limited Geography (2 Cumorah) Model

The Sorenson-Grijalva model prioritizes archaeology correlations over geography relationships, so it has more issues with correlating the placement & populations of its cities with what’s implied in the Book of Mormon text but is superior to the Usumacinta models in its archaeological correlations. In this section we focus on a number of geographic issues the model has with the text.

– NEPHITE NORTH. We already spoke of the issues Mayanland models have with general directions in the BOM text. So in this section we will accept, and attempt to use the 90 degree rotation needed to make directions generally fit the text.

– ALMA 52:9 MAKES NO SENSE WITH THIS MODEL. The location of all the east cities AND Bountiful in Sorenson’s model makes it so Alma 52:9 makes no sense because it is SOO far ‘north’ (even though its actually west) of the land of Zarahemla, that guarding the ‘pass’ near bountiful makes absolutely no strategic bearing on the security of the Land of Zarahemla. Listen to the wording of the verse.

9 And he also sent orders unto him that [Teancum] should fortify the land Bountiful, and secure the narrow pass which led into the land northward, lest the Lamanites should obtain that point and should have power to harass them on every side. (Alma 52:9)

Look at the map and note that NONE of Sorenson’s ‘east coast’ cities would keep the Lamanites out of Zarahemla.  Only a configuration as discussed in #1 would. Alma 60:19 further pushes this issue that Moroni’s defensive cities spoken of in Alma 51-59 fully protect the central land of Zarahemla.

19 Or is it that ye have neglected us because ye are in the heart of our country and ye are surrounded by security, that ye do not cause food to be sent unto us, and also men to strengthen our armies? (Alma 60:19)

– EAST COAST CITIES ARE NORTH OF ZARAHEMLA INSTEAD OF EAST. Note particularly Alma 51:26’s language where it says,

Nephihah, and the city of Lehi, and the city of Morianton, and the city of Omner, and the city of Gid, and the city of Mulek, all of which were on the east borders [of Nephite lands/land of Zarahemla-per Alma 50:13–15] by the seashore.   (Alma 51:26)

Note it does not say “on the east seashore”, but “on the east borders.” And from Alma 52:9 mentioned above, we can again confidently assume that’s referring to the east borders of the Land of Zarahemla. And Alma 50:13 makes this more clear, specifying that Nephihah is on the “south” of the east sea (as we’ll go over in a moment), where as the Lehi, Morianton, Omer, Gid & Mulek are a bit farther north, but still obviously in line enough with the Land of Zarahemla to make all the evidence fit.

How can these cities be considered to be “on the east borders” of Nephite lands in Sorensen’s model when he has them so far North? They are LITERALLY WEST of Zarahaemla— But even using Sorensen’s 90 degree rotation of “Nephite North”, placing these cities on Tehuantepec in line with Bountiful clearly makes them northern border cities contrary to the text & flow of the Lamanite attack. Not to mention that such a configuration leaves the entirety of the western flank of the land of Zarahemla or Chiapas depression open for attack (discussed next). It also makes the location of Jershon illogical (discussed later).

– SORENSON’S PLACEMENT OF NEPHIHAH, MORONI & MANTI ARE ILLOGICAL & CONTRARY TO THE TEXTAlma 50 puts the nail in the coffin concerning the above issues, showing the problem in all Mayanland models but especially the Sorenson model. Alma 50:7–15 begins by saying Moroni DROVE THE LAMANITES OUT OF THE EAST WILDERNESS until they were SOUTH OF ZARAHEMLA, and then created a new border which runs IN A STRAIGHT COURSE FROM THE EAST TO THE WEST SEA. Look at the map and try and figure out how this works with Sorenson’s model? It doesn’t!

The text then says he “placed armies on the SOUTH…[of the east wilderness and land of Zarahemla–as per v.7-8] fortifying the line between the Nephites and the Lamanites, between the land of Zarahemla and the land of Nephi, from the west sea…” to the newly built garrison cities of Moroni, which was “by the east sea… on the south” by the line of [Lamanite] possessions” by the new border (v. 13). And Nephihah, Aaron & Moroni all share borders (v. 14). 

This absolutely does not work with Sorenson’s model. Read the whole section here carefully for yourself. Mormon first specifies the “straight course” (east/west sea to sea) nature of the border, then says the city of Moroni is built right on it— SOUTH of Zarahemla. 

And it came to pass that Moroni caused that his armies should go forth into the east wilderness; yea, and they went forth and drove all the Lamanites who were in the east wilderness into their own lands, WHICH WERE SOUTH OF THE LAND OF ZARAHEMLA. And the land of Nephi did run in a straight course from the east sea to the west. (Alma 50:7–8)

10 And he also placed armies on the south [of the Land Zarahemla & east wilderness], in the borders of [Nephite] possessions… 11 And thus he cut off all the strongholds of the Lamanites in the east wilderness, yea, and also on the west, fortifying the line [of possession] between the Nephites and the Lamanites, between the land of Zarahemla and the land of Nephi, from the west sea, running by the head of the river Sidon–[to the east sea, per verse 8] 13 And it came to pass that the Nephites began the foundation of a city, and they called the name of the city Moroni; and it was by the east sea; and it was ON THE SOUTH by the line of the possessions of the Lamanites. 14 And they also began a foundation for a city between the city of Moroni and the city of Aaron, joining the borders of Aaron and Moroni; and they called the name of the city, or the land, Nephihah. 15 And they also began in that same year to build many cities on the north, one… called Lehi. (Alma 50:10–15)

These verses are SO descriptive, that essentially ALL internal models interpret a similar layout of a backwards L of border cities. Note specifically that Moroni & Nephihah ARE ON THE SOUTH right on the Nephite/Lamanite border, as opposed to Lehi & its neighbors which are ON THE NORTH– but not SO far north that Alma 52:9 doesn’t make sense. So Sorenson’s placement directly contradicts the text! But even if we use stretches of logic to twist the text to say something different—if Moroni & Nephihah (which are part of the East Coast Cities mentioned in Alma 51:26) were on the North coast of Tehuantepec, how does that help divide or fortify Zarahemla from Lamanite attack from the land of Nephi?!  How can they be considered “south of the Land of Zarahemla” (Alma 50:7) or “south of the borders of their possessions” (Alma 50:10) or “south by the line of the possessions of the Lamanites” (Alma 50:13)! Especially when the context seems to infer that all of these terms are referring to the same area.

– MANTI IS IN PROXIMITY TO NEPHIHAH & MORONI IN THE TEXT. (As per Alma 56:25, Alma 59:5–7, Alma 43:22) Putting Manti far from Nephihah or Moroni is fully against the text. (A full 200-250 miles in Sorenson’s Model.)  In these three verses, armies move between these cities as if they are the closest options. For instance the Lamanite armies guarding Manti debate whether to retreat to Nephihah when under attack from Helaman’s forces.

25 Neither durst they [the Lamanites in Manti & surrounding cities] march down against the city of Zarahemla; neither durst they cross the head of Sidon, over to the city of Nephihah. (Alma 56:25)

Later after Helaman and the 2000 stripling warrior drive them from the city of Manti & Judea, the Lamanite armies flee there anyway. Obviously because Nephihah was one of the closest cities needing reinforcements.

5 And it came to pass that while Moroni was thus making preparations to go against the Lamanites to battle, behold, the people of Nephihah, who were gathered together from the city of Moroni and the city of Lehi and the city of Morianton, were attacked by the Lamanites. 6 Yea, even those who had been compelled to flee from the land of Manti, and from the land round about, had come over and joined the Lamanites in this [Nephihah] part of the land. 7 And thus being exceedingly numerous, yea, and receiving strength from day to day, by the command of Ammoron they came forth against the people of Nephihah… (Alma 59:5–7)

Remember Nephihah was between Aaron and Moroni (Alma 50:14), and Aaron was somewhat near Ammonihah (Alma 8:13). And Moroni, Nephihah and Lehi are all relatively close by each other (Alma 51:24–26). It makes ABSOLTELY no sense for the people of Manti near Libertad on the Chiapas border to flee over 200 miles to Sorenson’s Nephihah on the north reaches of the Grijalva River near the coast.

– SORENSON’S ANTIONUM DOESN’T WORK WITH THE TEXT. The Book of Mormon strongly implies that Antionum is south-east of the land Zarahemla. Sorenson’s model puts it northwest (or north-northeast using “Nephite North”). Read the references and note how Sorenson’s configuration would require the west Yucatan to be the “wilderness south” of Alma 31:3, which makes absolutely no sense–because that region is already his east wilderness.

3 Now the Zoramites had gathered themselves together in a land which they called Antionum, which was east of the land of Zarahemla, which lay nearly bordering upon the seashore, which was south of the land of Jershon, which also bordered upon the wilderness south, which wilderness was full of the Lamanites. (Alma 31:3)

The South Wilderness is defined elsewhere, and it is not East! Alma 16:7 puts it south of Zarahemla, “up beyond the borders of Manti”, near the head of the River Sidon. Alma 22:27–31 agrees, saying the Land of Zarahemla and the Land of Nephi are separated by a “narrow strip of wilderness” (v.27), which we have no reason not to believe is the “south wilderness” of v.31.

– JERSHON DOESN’T WORK WITH SORENSON’S MODEL EITHER! Note that the above verse also makes Sorenson’s location of Jershon CONTRARY TO THE TEXT. In fact Jershon breaks the Sorenson model, because as we just read, Jerson is north of Antionum. And Antionum is EAST of Zarahemla (Alma 31:3). In fact its southeast, not northeast which we’ll prove in a moment. Yet Sorenson is FORCED to put Jershon and Antionum to the North of Zarahemla because his city of Bountiful is SO FAR NORTH, and Alma 27:22 clearly states that Jerson borders Bountiful.

22 And it came to pass that the voice of the people came, saying: Behold, we will give up the land of Jershon, which is on the east by the sea, which joins the land Bountiful, which is on the south of the land Bountiful (Alma 27:22)

Alma 27 also goes on to imply that Jerson is near, and possibly even borders, the land of Nephi

23 And behold, we will set our armies between the land Jershon and the land Nephi, that we may protect our brethren in the land Jershon (Alma 27:23)

So Jerson borders Bountiful AND Antionum, which is EAST (Alma 31:3) and NOT NORTH or north-east of Zarahemla as he tries to make it. Honestly this should also be clear from the fact that Manti (Alma 43:22) is the first city attacked by Zerahemnah who stages his war from Antionum (Alma 43:5,15), which is obviously located somewhat near the south border (which is why the Nephites were worried about a possible separatist movement among them in Alma 31:4).

In fact the wording of Alma 28:1–3 suggests that Jershon would be somewhat near the southern border on the borders of Zarahemla and the “south wilderness” close to Nephi. Especially when you add how the people of Jershon are later moved to a safer location (Alma 35:13)?  Jershon & Antionum being on the southern border by the land Nephi is also suggested by Alma 43:22 which has the Amalekites heading over to Manti and the head of Sidon as the next best attack point after being scared off in the land of Jershon. In Sorensen’s model this would be a 250 mile flank maneuver across an enigmatic massive swath of eastern frontier which his model has no cities guarding! 

22 Behold, now it came to pass that [the Amackites] durst not come against the Nephites in the borders of Jershon; therefore they departed out of the land of Antionum into the wilderness, and took their journey [way, way, way?] round about in the wilderness, away by the head of the river Sidon, that they might come into the land of Manti and take possession of the land (Alma 43:22)

The close relationship between these regions is also suggested in Alma 59:5–7 where Nephihah and Moroni receive reinforcements from the Manti area. 

– MORONI (AND THUS NEPHIHAH & JERSHON) ARE IN THE CORNER OF THE WILDERNESS SOUTH & WILDERNESS EAST. We’ve already established this in previous verses, but Alma 62 hits it home by stating that the land of Moroni is surrounded by the wilderness south and wilderness east.  

34 And it came to pass that Moroni and Lehi and Teancum did encamp with their armies round about in the borders of the land of Moroni, insomuch that the Lamanites were encircled about in the borders by the wilderness on the south, and in the borders by the wilderness on the east [of the land Moroni]. (Alma 62:34)

Remember that Moroni is right on the east sea which drowns it at the death of Christ (3 Ne 8:9), so the “wilderness on the east” is obviously talking about the “east wilderness” which is east of the land of Zarahemla & Nephi (Alma 50:7–11Alma 25:5), not a wilderness east of Moroni (since there’s a sea east of Moroni).  Because of this we can safely assume that the “wilderness on the south” is also in relation to the Land of Zarahemla, or in other words, the “south wilderness” or narrow strip of wilderness that lies between the Nephite and Lamanite lands (as explained in Alma 16:6). This configuration is nowhere close to what Sorenson proposes. Sorenson’s model has Moroni nowhere EVEN NEAR the south wilderness. Or ANY south wilderness for that matter.

– AMMONIHAH’S LOCATION IS ILLOGICAL. Furthermore his northern location of Ammonihah, Noah and Aaron make no logistical sense. The Lamanite retreat of Alma 16 has an army crossing the head of Sidon while taking the captives home to the Land of Nephi. In Sorensen’s model, this would put the army retreating literally 200 miles directly through the south end of the Land of Zarahemla, in order to put them at the head of Sidon (La Libertad in his model), which makes absolutely no sense given the context of the story. In fact, Alma 49:3,15 says that Ammonihah was twice a target of Lamanite aggression because it was an “easy prey” or convenient point of attack.  So would a city 250 miles into enemy territory really be considered an “easy target? Doesn’t a placement much closer to the Nephite/Lamanite south border make far more sense? 

Especially, since we know Ammonihah is near Aaron (Alma 8:13), Jershon (Alma 35:1–8) and the Land of Antionum, then Alma 49 is the SECOND time an army heads toward Manti from that area.  So once again it is completely illogical to not place these two areas adjacent or somewhat close to one another along a southern border as suggested by most internal models as well as suggested by Alma 31:3 & Alma 50:7.

– ZERAHEMLA IS NOT LIKELY VERY NEAR THE WEST COAST.  The Book of Mormon does not seem to indicate that Zarahemla is near the West Sea or Coast. In fact if anything, it suggests its closer to the east coast. Note that the ‘new border’ cities and war chapters of Alma 51-58 talk about defensive cities on the southern border and EASTERN border, more likely suggesting that Zarahemla is closer to the east coast than the west coast, and that the “west wilderness” (Alma 8:3Alma 2:37) must be a major obstacle protecting the land from western entrance or exit.

More importantly, the Land of Zarahemla is NOT said to stretch “from the east sea unto the west sea” in Alma 22:27,33 like the land of Nephi, narrow strip of wilderness and land of Bountiful are. Additionally Helaman 1:18, 24–27 calls Zarahemla “the center of the land” and Alma 60:19 has Moroni calling the land of Zarahemla “in the heart of our country surrounded by security”. Sorenson’s model has Zarahemla being less than 50 miles from the west coast, which is hardly the heart of region.

Issues with the Usumacinta Mayanland Models

Book of Mormon Usumacinta Model

The Usumacinta model prioritizes the geographic relationships between east coast cities (especially Moroni & Nephihah) over archaeologic correlations (especially in the known dates of cities) and thus seems to do a slightly better job at fitting its geography to the Book of Mormon text than the Sorenson/Grijalva Model (or any model which places the ‘east sea’ cities on the north coast of Tehuantepec). However, like all Mayanland models, it still shares a few major issues with the ‘east sea’ cities. A problem which seems to be best overcome by supposing that Mormon and/or his people believed the east sea to be closer to Zarahemla than it was. (ie. the Yucatan peninsula was not as big as it actually is).

– Usumacinta models do a very poor job of matching formative archaeological sites to the Book of Mormon text. Although after the Time of Christ, archeological sites like Palenque, Tonina, Bonampak or even Yaxchilan could make for excellent correlations with Zarahemla with their large classic era populations, temples building and known trade networks and city-state formation—NONE of these sites match the timeline of the Book of Mormon well. The Book of Mormon suggests Zarahemla should have been founded by Mulekites sometime around 600 BC, but then see a burst of growth and city-state creation when Mosiah I come with his group from the Land of Nephi and consolidates power. And even more particularly when Captain Moroni re-aligns the border and consolidates power. With a slight population decline at the Time of Christ’s death from volcanic episodes and a massive resurgance from 33-350 AD when a collapse should appear.

Unfortunately none of these events are really seen in the archaeology with the exception of a political dispute in Tikal around 350 AD. (and Tikal is EAST of the Usumacinta (Sidon) which is contrary to the text.

– The Mirador Basin’s major formative population centers are very problematic for Usumacinta models. (explain this when you have time)

Strengths and weakness are covered in the Mayanland model section above.

PLUS ALL THE OTHER ISSUES ARLEADY MENTIONED ABOVE CONCERNING ALL LIMITED MESOAMERICAN MODELS

Possible Issues with my Mexican Highland Continental model

Book of Mormon Geography Continental Model

1 – THE NARROW NECK NORTH OF THE LAND OF ZARAHEMLA IN ALMA 22:32 OF THE BOOK OF MORMON SOUNDS LIKE A NARROW ISTHMUS. I cover this issue in detail in my article entitled, ‘The Narrow Neck as Baja and the Sea of Cortez.’ In short, the most straight forward reading of the Book of Mormon text does indeed make the Narrow Neck sound like an Isthmus. (especially if that’s already what you’re picturing in your mind). However, there are other ways to interpret Alma 50:34Alma 52:9Hel 4:6–7 Mormon 2:29 & Mormon 3:5–6.

In my model I reinterpret these scriptures to suggest that because the Book of Mormon never explicitly says that the Narrow Passes are ON the Narrow Neck, and that nothing indeed actually is said to occur ON the Narrow Neck (only BY it), that the text allows for an interpretation where the Narrow Neck is actually the Baja Peninsula and was the defining geographic feature deliniating the Boundary between their Land Northward (roughly US & Canada) vs. their Land Southward (roughly Mexico)

see The Narrow Neck as Baja and the Sea of Cortez for a detailed discussion on this topic.

Despite what I believe are valid rationalizations, its clear that the general isthmian impression given in Alma 22 is probably the number one weakness of this models correlation with the Book of Mormon text. (although to be fair its a weakness shared to some extent by all models except the “panama as the narrow neck” models.)

2 – CITY OF TEANCUM COULD BE AN ISSUE. The city of Teancum is mentioned in association with the city of Desolation in the final battles/retreat of Mormon 4.  The text seems to suggest that the cities are very close to each other. However, one would assume that a city named after Teancum would be very near the city of Bountiful on the East Coast since that is where Teancum died (if the city was named after the war general, which seems like a reasonable assumption, although certainly not stated in the text, or even implied). 

However, Mormon seems to have come from the same area of ‘narrow neck area’ near the Hill Shim (Mormon 1:3–6) and yet was named after the waters and forest of Mormon way down in the land southward, so the naming of things in that region after places or people in the Land Southward does have precedence in the text.  And Mormon seems to include a surprising amount of literature on the wars of Moroni (also naming his son after the general). So it seems quite reasonable that the culture around Desolation and Boaz idolized the wars of Moroni to such a point that they named cities after ancient heroes regardless of it they were close to the locations of those ancient wars?

3 – DIRECTIONS. Although far less so than other Mesoamerican models, the Weaver Continental Model still suffers from minor directionality issues where the land Nephi is directly southwest of Zarahemla instead of directly south of it. This is particularly true if Zarahemla is held to be in the western Balsas Basin instead of the Puebla/Cholula valley (in which case its mostly south). Likewise the ‘sea west’ is not directly west, but south and west (excepting the Nayarit area where I believe Haggoth put in, which is directly west). These minor directional issues are FAR less than those in the Mayanland models where directions must be rotated by a full 90 degrees to fit the text.

4 – DATING & TIMELINES. My models makes two major claims about timelines and archaeological dates that many will find issue with, as I ascribe to errors on the part of Mormon or the spiritual translators. The first is my belief that the early Jaredites arrived just before the end of the Ice Age and that the Great Dearth mentioned in Ether 9 in which “people did follow the course of the [flocks, herds, elephants, cureloms & cumoms], and did devour the carcasses of them which fell by the way, until they had devoured them all” (Ether 9:30–34). My belief that this section matches far too closely with what is known of the Younger Dryas climate event which caused the extinction of North America’s megafauna to not be what the authors were referring too. This however archaeologically dates to a time far outside what it assumed by the text and its reference to the Tower of Babel (9500 BC vs. 2300 BC?)

The second is my Nephite final exodus and genocide which I correlate with the burning and abonnement of Tula, the massacres of Alta Vista and calchhuates, teh burials mounds of Guesave, the Chacoan phenomena buildup and collapse/burning and the Cahokia Mississippian buildup and collapse. All of which date to between 1050-1150 AD instead of 300-400 AD. Which I again ascribe to a mistake on the part of Mormon or the spiritual translators.

4 – DISTANCE LOGISTICS

The Continental model is based on the assumption that the ancient inhabitants of the America’s spoken of in the Book of Mormon were as adept at long distance sea and overland travel as the ancient cultures of Egypt and Persia and even the Arabs & Austronesians during short stints. If the reader has trouble believing in the mounting evidence that Bronze Age cultures of the Old World spread their technology of megalithic architecture, pyramid building, and sea-worthy ship building across the globe then the Continental Model is not for you. (perhaps you should stick to a pocket model). However, if you suspect from the similarities of Stonehenge, Egypt, The Javan Pyramids and the Bronze Age pyramids of Caral-Supe Peru that the ancients possessed globalized skill and technology that we have not yet given them credit for, then the Continental model may add significant insight to your worldview.

Its typical for those who have been sold on one of the Book of Mormon pocket models to raise concerns about the distances involved in the Continental model. Often these concerns involve misunderstandings in the Book of Mormon text itself or hypocritical arguments nearly identical to those levied against the Book of Mormon by critics who do not believe the Lehite or Jaredite or Mulekite overland and transoceanic voyages were possible given their interpretation of archaeological evidence.

Following are some evidence to the contrary.

  • There is substantial evidence that the Teotihuacan Empire conquered the Soconusco region of Guatemala and that the Toltec’s conquered the area of Chichen Itza and that Aztec conquered Soconusco as well. Each of these regions are nearly 1000 miles from the Capital, showing the ancient Mexican Highland empire’s ability to subdue and hold long distance trading regions & outposts.
  • We have ZERO indication of how many of either Nephites or Lamanites came from Zarahemla to the final battle. For all we know, they ALL came from desolation or Jordan. In my model scientists are working on figuring this out with dental isotope studies–because the dead bodies are everywhere.
  • The Nephite exodus happened over a period of 50+ year period! Zarahemla to Sherrizah/Boaz 321-370, Boaz to Jordan 5-10 years.. to Cumorah another 8 years (370-374). Want to do the math of how far you’d need to travel each day? (and once again we have no idea how many traveled? Just a few little clues in a couple areas
  • WATER! Like the saints who came from England, the Nephites/Lamanites would have UNDOUBTEDLY used water for transport. In my model their cities are predominantly along water trade hubs (all but about 200 miles of the way) IN FACT, logic suggests that’s why Cumorah was the battle spot. ITS THE END OF THE ROAD (the road being the Mississippi they used their canoes to travel)
  • BEASTS OF BURDAN. Some suggest the Natives couldn’t travel distances like those traveled by peoples and armies in the Old World because they did not have beasts of burden. However, even though there is little to no reliable evidence of horses, Sahagun may suggest they used deer as transport animals (get reference). And Castaneda explains that the plains natives used large dog teams, just like the Eskimos to carry supply slays. In his Narrative of the Expedition of Coronado, Castaneda says “They travel like the Arabs, with their tents and troops of dogs loaded with poles[363][521] and having Moorish pack-saddles with girths” (see Ch.7, p362)
  • NAKED EVEN IN THE COLD. Some suggest that the US region of North America could not be the land spoken of in the Book of Mormon because its too cold for the animal skin loin cloth dress mentioned in Alma 3:5. However Casteneda contradicts this in his Narrative of the Expedition of Coronado, saying that even in the snowy highlands of the Southwest, “the young women in that province went entirely naked, however cold it might be, and… the virgins had to go around this way until they took a husband, and that they covered themselves after they had known man. The men here wear little shirts of tanned deerskin and their long robes over this” (Ch.4, p355). Of those in the south Cabeze De Vaca says “The Indians we had so far seen in Florida are all archers. They go naked, are large of body, and appear at a distance like giants” (Ch.7 p. 33). Speaking of Texas he again says “The inhabitants of all this region go naked. The women alone have any part of their persons covered, and it is with a wool that grows on trees. The damsels dress themselves in deer-skin.” (Ch.15,p.35). In the Northern reaches of the Pecos River near Oklahoma & the Texas panhandle where our city of Jordan is near, De Vaca also describes many of the natives as “entirely naked”, he says “They go entirely naked after the manner of the first we saw. The women are dressed with deer-skin, and some few men, mostly the aged, who are incapable of fighting” (see Ch.30.p.104)
  • TULA in the plains. De Soto says specifically that Tula was not far from Naguatex & The Nadaco which is thought to be in Texas or Oklahoma. He says “hey arrived in the Governor’s presence weeping, after the usage of Tula (thence to the eastward not very distant), when the chief, making his proper obeisance, thus spoke” (Ch.33.p241). The land or city of Tula is mentioned again by De Soto near Paacha & Autiamque. He says, “from thence to Pacaha northwardly, to Tula westwardly, to Autiamque southwardly”. These locations are thought to be in modern Arkansas. (Ch.44.p271)
  • BOATS. One of the best descriptions of the few ‘mega-boats’ built and used by the natives of North America comes from the native guide of the Coronado Expedition who they nick-named ‘Turk’. In Castaneda’s account he quotes Turk saying “in his country there was a river in the level country which was two leagues wide [The Mississippi, which ranges from 1 mile in the dry season to over 11 miles in high run off], in which there were fishes as big as horses, and large numbers of very big canoes, with more than twenty rowers on a side, and that they carried sails, and that their lords sat on the poop under awnings, and on the prow they had a great golden eagle. (see Ch.13.p.314) These boats could have been used for transport of people and supplies during exploration and war travels. Explorer Hernando de Soto seems to verify this in his journey along the Mississippi relating how they were attacked often daily by large numbers of well stocked canoes. In one account he perhaps exaggerates that, “The next day a hundred canoes came together, [some?] having from sixty to seventy persons in them [each], those of the principal men having awnings, and themselves wearing white and colored plumes, for distinction.” Thereafter he explains how the native “canoes were larger than [those of the Spanish],” and from them armies of native people’s relentlessly attacked them. (see Ch.37.p.257)

As far as logistics is concerned, if you’re going one hundred miles, the logistics of going a few thousand is no different. You just do the exact same daily logistical thing, for a much longer period. (which often involves plunder and conscription of local populations.) We have no indication that these final battle armies used advanced roman/Mongol type supply support chains instead of migrate & go techniques.

– WEST AMERICAN DESERTS ARE ONLY TRULY DESOLATE PART OF NORTH AMERCA. In the Continental Model, the names of lands are excellent descriptors of the the ecology. Many Waters, is the part of the continents with the most/largest rivers & water bodies, Desolation, is the part of the continent that is most desolate. Bountiful is the most productive part of Mexico where more than half its population lives. Two Cumorah proponents often suggest that the Land of Desolation, was called such, ONLY because of the ‘Desolation’ or destruction of people. Not because the region was also naturally desolate as far as vegetation goes. This textual uncertainty is caused because of ambiguity in both the definition and the usage in the text. Desolate, can be defined as 1. destitute or deprived of inhabitants; desert; uninhabited, or 2. laid waste; in a ruinous condition. (see 1828 dictionary). Note that Hel 3:6 can be read in two different ways each with different meanings depending on whether you define ‘desolate’. For example.

6 And now no part of the land was desolate [destitute or deprived of inhabitants; desert; uninhabited], save it were for timber; but because of the greatness of the destruction of the people who had before inhabited the land it was called desolate. (Hel 3:6)
6 And now no part of the land was desolate [laid waste; in a ruinous condition], save it were for timber; but because of the greatness of the destruction of the people who had before inhabited the land it was called desolate. (Hel 3:6)

So then the question is, was the Land of Desolation, actually Bountiful when it comes to vegetation, rain, soil & fertility but simply laid waste of people? Or was it BOTH a desert, destitute/deprived of inhabitants; AND laid waste of inhabitants. The text might lead us to believe its only the first case. Except then we must ask ourselves, how is it that in Mosiah 8:11, the Lemhite explorers found that the swords had all rusted and hilts had ‘perished, but the people’s bones had not disintegrated? (see also Alma 22:30) In an area like Teahuantepec we’d have to assume the Jaredite war occurred less than a decade or two before being found by the explorers. Likewise, how is it that the trees had not grown back in Hel 3:9 so that they had to be shipped in from surrounding areas? (Note the region spoken of in Hel 3:4–5 are two different regions, Many Waters, and Desolation

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NOT A LOT OF OTHERS ISSUES I’VE FOUND SO FAR.  AND IT EFFECTIVELY SOLVES MOST ISSUES IN THE OTHER PREDOMINATE MODELS.

The strength of my continental model is how by making this one assertion that Mormon/Moroni were confused as to the true nature of the ‘narrow neck/narrow pass’, and the time since Christ’s coming, the rest of the book really just ends up fitting unbelievably well with basically the buildup and notable collapses of nearly EVERY SINGLE major culture on the continent. From the Adena & Hopewell to the ancient Puebloans/Anasazi, Teotihuacan & Mexican Highland to the Zapotec and Olmec and even archaic and Paleoindian groups.
– If you’d like to contribute to a list of issues, please email them to me. 

See Book of Mormon Geography: An Internal Model

A CRITICAL LOOK AT THE VALLEY OF MEXICO AS ‘MANY WATERS’/CUMORAH MODEL

Some have suggested the Valley of Mexico to be the ‘many waters’ of the land Northward, and the
-Chapultepec (his hill Cumorah) is directly west of the ancient lake Texacoco, which doesn’t fit well with the description in Ether 15:8–10 where the army of Coriantumr went south of Ripliancum to Ogath/Cumorah.
-Nor does it work with Omer who “passed by the hill of Shim, and came over by the place where the Nephites were destroyed, and from thence eastward, [to] the seashore” (Ether 9:3). If Moron is on Tehuantepec, why would Omer head to the Valley of Mexico on his way to Ablom? That’s a difference of 200 miles (for the direct route) verses 500 miles to go to the Valley of Mexico first. Why such a huge, strange detour? The text makes it sound like Cumorah was on the way to Ablom on the sea. If this wasn’t the case, wouldn’t the text say? (perhaps he had business to take care of, but the text just doesn’t seem to imply such).
-Add to this the strange indirectness of the path to Desolation and Cumorah during the final battle. As the text has the Nephites fleeing from Zarahemla first to Joshua on the west coast (Mormon 2:6) before then crossing to the M2C Desolation which is always correlated with the Olmec lands on the North Coast of Tehuantepec, and then on to the Valley of Mexico. The text never mentions crossing to the East Sea, but the question is, if the Nephite Land of Desolation is on the east coast, why did the army retreat from Zarahemla to the west coast instead of taking the obviously more direct north routes through Chiapa de Corzo? And why is not a single known ‘east coast’ city mentioned in their retreat? There’s no mention of Nephihah, Mulek or Bountiful? If this geography is correct, these omissions seem strange.
-Really however, these issues pale compared to the archaeological/socio-political issues with this model. Particularly because Teotihuacan and the Valley of Mexico was by far the largest population center and political force on the continent in 300 AD; truly akin to Egypt or Babylon or Rome in the Bible. It seems almost impossible that the Book of Mormon would simply fail to mention such a political power, so most M2C proponents suggest this city was the Lamanite ally ‘Gadiantons’ mentioned in Mormon 1:18 & Mormon 2:27–28. However, this doesn’t make much sense either, because Mormon 2:27 clearly shows the Lamanites & Gadiantons were allies fighting against the Nephites. Yet, Mormon 2:28–29 has a treaty giving the Land Southward to the Lamanites and the Land Northward to the Nephites! “29 And the Lamanites did give unto us the land northward, yea, even to the narrow passage which led into the land southward. And we did give unto the Lamanites all the land southward.” (Mormon 2:29) How does that work? Since its unrealistic to suggest the Nephites beat the Teotihuacan empire with their 40,000 troops, M2C proponents assume that the “us” in this verse is suddenly opposite the Lamanite & Gadianton Alliance mentioned in v. 27, and now the Gadiantons are allied with the Nephites! However, if this were the case, the archaeological evidence suggests there is no way that any Mayan Lamanite force would have been able to beat the Nephites in the final battle! The Cumorah as the Valley of Mexico model tries to overcome the idea of the Maya bringing many tens of thousands of troops into Teotihuacan territory in Veracruz by having Teo..
-So who are the Teotihuacanos? Nephites, Lamanites or Gadiantons? (every one of these have issues). Either way, there is ZERO archaeological evidence of a massive siege and battle on Grasshopper hill. Surely if 230,000 people were holed up on a hill on the edge of such an urban environment they would have fortified it. But if Nephites, wouldn’t the Lamanite army then take over Teotihuacan? And that Lamanite army would have still had to travel 800 miles, likely all on land from the Land of Nephi. If Gadiantons, then why ON EARTH, would the Nephites flee into the belly of their culture?!!

Making Sense of the Numbers of Genesis

Among the greatest stumbling blocks to faith in the Bible are the incredibly long ages of the patriarchs and the chronologies of Genesis 5 and 11 that seem to place the age of the Earth at about 6,000 years ago. The key to understanding the numbers in Genesis is that, in the Mesopotamian world view, numbers could have both real (numerical) and sacred (numerological or symbolic) meaning. The Mesopotamians used a sexagesimal (base 60) system of numbers, and the patriarchal ages in Genesis revolve around the sacred numbers 60 and 7. In addition to Mesopotamian sacred numbers, the preferred numbers 3, 7, 12, and 40 are used in both the Old and New Testaments. To take numbers figuratively does not mean that the Bible is not to be taken literally. It just means that the biblical writer was trying to impart a spiritual or historical truth to the text—one that surpassed the meaning of purely rational numbers. (Taken from a PDF at this link)

Author: Carol A. Hill

One of the greatest stumbling blocks to faith in the Bible has been, and is, the numbers found in Genesis—both the incredibly long ages of the patriarchs and the chronologies of Genesis 5 and 11 that seem to place the age of the Earth at about 6,000 years before present. As stated by Hugh Ross in the Genesis Question: “When readers encounter the long life spans in Genesis, they become convinced that the book is fictional, or legendary at best, whether in part or in whole.”1

Apologists have attempted to explain the long ages in Genesis in various ways.

1. Year-month-season explanation. This theory proposes that perhaps a “year” to the people of the ancient Near East had a different meaning than it does today. Instead of being marked by the orbit of the sun, a “year” then marked the orbit of the moon (a month) or a season (three months). Among the Greeks, years were sometimes called “seasons” (“horoi”), and this explanation of possible one-month or three-month equivalents of a year was mentioned by the ancient authors Pliny and Augustine, among others.2

However, this theory is nonsensical if one looks at the “begotting” ages of the patriarchs. If the ages for Adam and Enoch are divided by twelve (1 year = 1 month), then Adam would have fathered Seth at age eleven and Enoch would have been only five when he fathered Methuselah.3 Enoch’s age (65; Gen. 5:21) divided by four (1 year = 1 season) would result in an age of sixteen, which is biologically possible. But if the same number four is divided into 500— Noah’s age when his first son(s) were born (Gen. 5:32)—then the age of “begetting” would have been 125 years old, another unlikely possibility.

2. Astronomical explanations. Astronomical explanations also have been proposed to explain the incredibly long patriarchal ages. Perhaps the rotation period of the Earth has changed, so that the days then were not equivalent to those we have now. Or, perhaps a supernova could have damaged the Earth’s ozone layer, thus increasing ultraviolet radiation and systematically decreasing the age of humans.4 A problem with such astronomical explanations is that there is no concrete evidence for them. Some scientists have speculated that the transfer of angular momentum from the Earth to the moon over time has resulted in an appreciable increase in the length of a day.5 But this happened very early in Earth’s history—not within the last 10,000 years or less when the patriarchs lived. Similarly, there have been no known supernova explosions within the last 10,000 years that can account for the long ages of the patriarchs and a supposed decrease in the age of humans over time.

3. Tribal, dynasty, or “clan” explanation. Another explanation is that, when the Bible makes a statement like “Adam was the ‘father’ of Seth,” it means that the Adam “clan” had exercised dominion for 130 years (the age of Adam when Seth was born). In this view, Seth would be a direct-line descendent of Adam (grandson, great-grandson, etc.), but not the immediate son of Adam.6 Then, Seth’s “son” descendants would become part of the Seth dynasty or tribe. While this theory might have some merit, as will be described later in the Chronology section (p. 247), it is not in accord with the personal encounters that the “fathers” supposedly had with their “sons”; e.g., Noah was 500 years when his son(s) were born (Gen. 5:32), yet he coexisted with them on the ark (Gen. 7:13).

4. Canopy theory explanation. Other people have tried to explain the long ages of the patriarchs by creating a “different world” for pre-Flood humans. Whitcomb and Morris’ explanation of these long ages fits with their idea of a vapor canopy.7 Before Noah’s Flood this canopy supposedly shielded Earth from harmful radiation so that people could live to a very old age. After the Flood, harmful radiation slowly increased so that the patriarchs’ ages exhibit a slow and steady decline to the biblical life span of 70 years mentioned in Ps. 90:10.

The problem with the canopy theory is that there is not one shred of geologic or physical evidence to support it. In addition, there is no archaeological evidence that substantiates incredibly long ages for people in the past—either in Mesopotamia or anywhere else. It is known that humans living in the Bronze Age (which time span includes most of the patriarchs) had an average life span of about forty years, based on human skeletons and legal documents of the time.8 If infants and children are included in this life-span average, it would be even lower. Examination of skeletons in a number of graves at al’Ubaid (one of the oldest known archaeological sites in Mesopotamia) has indicated that some people lived to be over sixty—a great age at that time.9 A wisdom text from Emar describes the stages of a man’s life as follows: forty as prime, fifty as a short time (in which case he died young), sixty as “wool” (that is, gray hair), seventy as a long time, eighty as old age, and ninety as extreme old age.10

How then can the great ages of the patriarchs and other problematic numbers of Genesis be explained? Does one have to construct a fantastical world based on fantastical ages in order to come up with an adequate explanation? The answer is quite simple—if one considers the “world view” or “mind-set” of the people living in the age of the patriarchs; that is, the Mesopotamians (the people who lived in what is now mostly Iraq) and the Hebrews in Palestine descended from the Mesopotamians. This world view includes both the religious ideas of these people and the numerical system used by them.

The Mesopotamian System of Numbers

The Mesopotamians were the first to develop writing, astronomy, mathematics (algebra and geometry), a calendar, and a system of weights and measures, accounting, and money.11 Even as early as the Ubaid Period (~3800– 5500 BC), Mesopotamian architects were familiar with numerous geometric principles such as 1:2, 1:4, 3:5, 3:4:5 and 5:12:13 triangles for laying out buildings,12 and by ~3000 BC scribes were working with unrealistically large and small numbers.13 The Mesopotamians were the first to arrive at logarithms and exponents from their calculations of compound interest,14 they knew how to solve systems of linear and quadratic equations in two or more unknowns,15 and they calculated the value of pi () to an accuracy of 0.6%.16 The so-called Pythagorean Theorem was invented by the Mesopotamians more than 1,000 years before Pythagoras lived, and was known not only for special cases, but in full generality.17

Sexagesimal Numbers

The mathematical texts of the Sumerians or Babylonians (people who lived in southern Mesopotamia) show that these people were regularly using a sexagesimal numbering system at least by Uruk time (~3100 BC). Along with the numbers sixty and ten on which their combined sexagesimaldecimal system was based, the number six was also used in a special “bi-sexagesimal system.”18 Examples of the Mesopotamian sexagesimal system are still with us today in the form of the 360º circle, with 60-minute degrees and 60-second minutes, and with respect to time, the 60- minute hour and 60-second minute. The Mesopotamians’ sexagesimal basis for time is also reflected in their 360-day (60 x 6) year, where a “13th month” (called iti dirig) was added every sixth year to make up for the days in an actual 365-day solar year.19 A sexagesimal (base 60) system made it possible for the Sumerians to construct a family of nicely interrelated measurement systems, with sequences of naturally occurring standard units that were easy to deal with in computation.20

One disadvantage of the Sumerian numbering system was ambiguity. The Sumerians wrote their system of numbers in cuneiform—a series of wedged marks impressed onto clay tablets. Although the Babylonians had developed the important principle of “position” (place-value notation) in writing numbers, the absolute value of the digits impressed on cuneiform tablets remained a matter of intelligent guesswork.21 Another uncertainty was introduced through the fact that a blank space in a cuneiform text could sometimes mean zero (the Mesopotamians had no symbol for zero).22 In practice, these types of ambiguities were not that serious for Mesopotamian scribes because the order of magnitude and position of the numbers could be realized from the context of the tablet (e.g., whether one was denoting rations of barley, rings of silver, or whatever). However, such contextual ambiguities could have created confusion for later Hebrew biblical scribes who were not familiar with the sexagesimal system and its peculiarities.

Despite the inherent difficulties in the Mesopotamians’ sexagesimal numbering system, these are not considered to be the major problem when it comes to understanding the ages of the patriarchs. The most important consideration in this regard is the Mesopotamians’ concept of sacred numbers.

Sacred Numbers

The Mesopotamians incorporated two concepts of numbers into their world view: (1) numbers could have real values, and (2) numbers could be symbolic descriptions of the sacred. “Real” numbers were used in the everyday administrative and economic matters of accounting and commerce (receipts, loans, allotment of goods, weights and measures, etc.), construction (architecture), military affairs, and taxation. But certain numbers of the sexagesimal system, such as sossos (60), neros (600), and saros (3600) occupied a special place in Babylonian mathematics and astronomy.23 In religion, the major gods of Mesopotamia were assigned numbers according to their position in the divine hierarchy. For example, Anu, the head of the Mesopotamians’ pantheon of gods, was assigned sixty, the most perfect number in the hierarchy. In addition, the Mesopotamians sometimes used numbers cryptographically; e.g., names could have a corresponding numerical value. For example, during the construction of his palace at Khorsubad, Sargon II stated: “I built the circumference of the city wall 16,283 cubits, the number of my name.”24

The sacred numbers used by the Mesopotamians gave a type of religious dignity or respect to important persons or to a literary text … [and] fit into [their] world view of symmetry and harmony.

At least from the late third millennium BC onward, “sacred numbers” were used in religious affairs for gods, kings, or persons of high standing. Just as a name held a special significance to the ancients (e.g., Noah, Gen. 5:29)—beyond its merely being a name—a number could also have meaning in and of itself. That is, the purpose of numbers in ancient religious texts could be numerological rather than numerical. 25 Numerologically, a number’s symbolic value was the basis and purpose for its use, not its secular value in a system of counting. One of the religious considerations of the ancients involved in numbers was to make certain that any numbering scheme worked out numerologically; i.e., that it used, and added up to, the right numbers symbolically. This is distinctively different from a secular use of numbers in which the overriding concern is that numbers add up to the correct total arithmetically. Another way of looking at it is that the sacred numbers used by the Mesopotamians gave a type of religious dignity or respect to important persons or to a literary text.

Sacred numbers also fit into the Mesopotamians’ world view of symmetry and harmony, which was at the core of their meaning of life. It was important to associate one’s life with the right numbers and to avoid wrong numbers that might bring disharmony (kind of like the Chinese concept of Yin and Yang). Symbolic numbers were of highest value in religious texts because they were considered to be the carriers of ultimate truth and reality. And what was the “really big” unit to the Mesopotamians—the number around which their whole mathematical system revolved? It was the number sixty (and to a lesser degree the number ten), or some combination of these two numbers (e.g., 60÷10 = 6; 60 x 10 = 600).26 Because sixty was considered to be the fundamental unit of the sexagesimal system, it is not surprising that it came to be thought of as sacred.

The Mesopotamian-Biblical Connection

Scholars in biblical and Mesopotamian studies have tried over the years to show the common traditions of both cultures, including the creation and flood stories and the numbers contained in Genesis. Stories from the ancient Akkadian (northern Mesopotamia) and Sumerian (southern Mesopotamia) cultures also tell of extraordinarily long life spans of important persons. This is not proof of long life spans, only that the two cultures were connected in their dual concept of sacred and secular numbers, and that people from both cultures were educated in essentially the same mathematical curriculum.27 Similar to the Mesopotamians, the Egyptians had exaggerated “long reigns” for their gods and kings,28 and this seems to have been a common religious tradition for peoples of the ancient Near East. A number of scholars have specifically attempted to mathematically determine a numerical connection between the long time spans in the Sumerian king lists and the long ages of the patriarchs in Genesis,29 but despite these attempts, there still remains no absolute demonstrable relationship between the two besides a superficial similarity.30

What has emerged from such comparative studies, however, is that the concept of numbers has changed over time (Table 1). While the Mesopotamians used a sexagesimal-based system, the Hebrews centuries later were using only a decimal-based system.

A possible scenario for this noted change is: When Abraham left Mesopotamia (Ur) for Palestine, he and his descendants came in contact with other Semitic peoples and the Egyptians who were using the decimal system.31 Thus, gradually the decimal system replaced the sexagesimal system in the Hebrews’ numerical world view as they moved from Mesopotamia to Palestine to Egypt and back to Palestine. Certainly Moses, the author of Genesis, would have used the decimal system, having been raised and educated in Egypt, but perhaps some of the numerological elements of the Mesopotamians’ world view remained in the Hebrew culture even at this time. It seems certain that a sound and really historical chronology had become established in Israel by the time of David (~900 BC), as two hundred or so chronological dates in the books of Samuel, Kings, and Chronicles are, with a few exceptions, of remarkable consistency.32 But even then, and long after, preferred or figurative numbers continued to be used throughout both the Old and New Testaments. During the Middle Ages, the concept of “sacred” numbers was lost, and it was not until the discovery and publication of the Babylonian mathematical texts in the second quarter of the twentieth century that the numerological nature of the patriarchal ages was rediscovered.33

This change in the conception of numbers may be the reason for the overall general decrease of patriarchal “begetting” ages and life-spans over time (from 930 years for Adam down to 175 years for Abraham; Table 2). The tendency to use exaggerated sacred numbers decreased after the Hebrews left Mesopotamia and slowly acquired a different numerical world view in Palestine and Egypt. However, in the generally decreasing age trend, there is an enormous jump in the “begetting” age of Noah (Table 2). This may signify an attempt by the biblical writer to favor the more righteous, or those who “stand out” from the rest due to their promi

TABLE 1: How the Concept of Numbers May Have Changed over Time

 

 

The rest of the article can be read here…

The Narrow Neck as Baja and the Sea of Cortez

Book of Mormon accounts are always “BY” the narrow neck, never ON the narrow neck.
“Where the sea divides the land”, NOT where the land divides the sea
Narrow Passes are never said to be ON the narrow neck .

34 And it came to pass that they did not head them until they had come to the borders of the land Desolation; and there they did head them, by the narrow pass which led by the sea into the land northward, yea, by the sea, on the west and on the east. (Alma 50:34)

9 And he also sent orders unto him that he should fortify the land Bountiful, and secure the narrow pass which led into the land northward, lest the Lamanites should obtain that point and should have power to harass them on every side. (Alma 52:9)

5 And it came to pass that Hagoth, he being an exceedingly curious man, therefore he went forth and built him an exceedingly large ship, on the borders of the land Bountiful, by the land Desolation, and launched it forth into the west sea, by the narrow neck which led into the land northward. (Alma 63:5)

6 And the Nephites and the armies of Moronihah were driven even into the land of Bountiful;
7 And there they did fortify against the Lamanites, from the west sea, even unto the east; it being a day’s journey for a Nephite, on the line which they had fortified and stationed their armies to defend their north country.(Hel 4:6–7)

29 And the Lamanites did give unto us the land northward, yea, even to the narrow passage which led into the land southward. And we did give unto the Lamanites all the land southward. (Mormon 2:29)

5 And it came to pass that I did cause my people that they should gather themselves together at the land Desolation, to a city which was in the borders, by the narrow pass which led into the land southward.
6 And there we did place our armies, that we might stop the armies of the Lamanites, that they might not get possession of any of our lands; therefore we did fortify against them with all our force. (Mormon 3:5–6)

30 And it bordered upon the land which they called Desolation, it being so far northward that it came into the land which had been peopled and been destroyed, of whose bones we have spoken, which was discovered by the people of Zarahemla, it being the place of their first landing.
31 And they came from there up into the south wilderness. Thus the land on the northward was called Desolation, and the land on the southward was called Bountiful, it being the wilderness which is filled with all manner of wild animals of every kind, a part of which had come from the land northward for food.
3
2 And now, it was only the distance of a day and a half’s journey for a Nephite, on the line Bountiful and the land Desolation, from the east to the west sea; and thus the land of Nephi and the land of Zarahemla were nearly surrounded by water, there being a small neck of land between the land northward and the land southward.
3
3 And it came to pass that the Nephites had inhabited the land Bountiful, even from the east unto the west sea, and thus the Nephites in their wisdom, with their guards and their armies, had hemmed in the Lamanites on the south, that thereby they should have no more possession on the north, that they might not overrun the land northward. (Alma 22:32–33)

19 …And in the days of Lib the poisonous serpents were destroyed. Wherefore they did go into the land southward, to hunt food for the people of the land, for the land was covered with animals of the forest. And Lib also himself became a great hunter.
20 And they built a great city by the narrow neck of land, by the place where the sea divides the land.
21 And they did preserve the land southward for a wilderness, to get game. And the whole face of the land northward was covered with inhabitants. (Ether 10:20–21)

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Overview

I believe many of the best correlations between the Book of Mormon’s internal geography and modern archaeological findings have been missed or passed over by Book of Mormon geographers almost exclusively because of misunderstandings surrounding the ‘Narrow Neck of Land’ mentioned in the text. Although two verses in Alma 22 & Alma 50 give the impression that the narrow neck is an isthmus, nearly every other indication seems to go against this notion. In this article, we’ll go through each verse relating to the Book of Mormon narrow neck to make a case that it is actually Baja California, which in ancient times, and even among early Spanish authors, served as the predominate geographic delineator between the Land Northward and Land Southward—much the same way as the Rio Grande river and Sonoran desert serves as the main delineator between the United States and Mexico in our day. Following are just a few of the reasons why a correlation between the narrow neck and the Baja peninsula seem to be the best fit to the text.

  1. Joseph Smith seems to have believed that the land of Desolation was the desert Southwest & Eastern plains areas of the United States with Bountiful & Zarahemla in Meso/Central America (see this article). Since Desolation bordered the narrow neck, ONLY a Baja Narrow Neck can makes his model work!
  2. Not a single occurrence in the Book of Mormon is said to happen ON the narrow neck. Instead all mentions of it are in regard to being BY the narrow neck. (see Alma 50:34, Alma 63:5, Mormon 3:5–6, Ether 10:20). Not a SINGLE verse in the Book of Mormon references Bountiful or Desolation as being ON the Narrow Neck, which we would expect if traditional Tehuantepec models were correct.
  3. The language in Ether 10:20 (and possibly Alma 63:5) seems to suggest a large inlet or gulf of the sea “which divides the land”, and “leads into the land northward”, NOT necessarily an isthmus of land which divides the sea and leads to the land northward.
  4. The given widths of the ‘narrow passes’ mentioned in the Book of Mormon are FAR less than any Mesoamerican Isthmuses. (because of this, traditional Tehantepec models also suggest that the ‘narrow passes’ are not the same as the ‘narrow neck’, but coastal passes on or near it. (Alma 50:34, Alma 52:9, Alma 63:5, Mormon 2&3)
  5. None of these passes are said to go from ‘the east sea to west sea’. And none are actually mentioned in conjunction with a ‘narrow neck’. Instead, the one north of the city of Bountiful sounds like a spitbar or something extremely narrow with ocean “on the east and on the west” (Alma 50:34), and the other specifies that it goes only from the ‘east unto the west sea‘.
  6. If the ‘narrow pass’ of Alma 52:9 were an isthmus north of Zarahemla, then the statement regarding fortifying a short section or line of it so the Lamanites cant “harass Zarahemla on every side”‘ makes little sense. It makes far better sense as a narrow coastal pass which is in-line with Zarahemla such as the Xalapa pass of Veracruz, directly east of my model’s Zarahemla.
  7. If the narrow neck were an isthmus, it seems strange that the city of Bountiful or any other east coast city south of the east narrow pass of Alma 52:9 are not mentioned in regard to Nephite retreat and final battles of Mormon chapters 1-7.
  8. By far, the best archaeological correlation for the truly urban portrayal of the land of Zarahemla in Book of Mormon times (200 BC to 300 AD) is the Teotihuacan/Cholula area of the Mexican highland. But this region is largely ignored by Book of Mormon geographers because it is NORTH of Mesoamerica’s isthmuses. (see this interview of Michael Coe on Book of Mormon urbanization here)
  9. Early Mesoamerican historians like Ixlilxochitl and other Toltec historians also often mention ancient travel along an “arm of the sea” when describing the Toltec journey from their Land Northward (North America?) to their land Southward (Valley of Mexico). Their descriptions of Baja and the West Mexico Corridor of Xalisco, sound a lot like the Book of Mormon’s Narrow Neck of sea.

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Joseph Smith on the Land of Desolation

On two, and possibly three occurrences, Joseph Smith is directly quoted by a first hand source as stating that the Book of Mormon Land of Desolation extended from the desert Southwest to the Great Plains of North America. This region is of course, one of the more obvious geographical candidates for a region where the text claims the people “did dwell in tents [teepees/wigwams], and in houses of cement [adobe/rock]” because it was one of the only North America desolate desert regions especially having “but little timber” (Hel 3:6–9). It also happens to be directly north of Mexico’s most ‘Bountiful’ population corridor which stretches from Guadalajara through Mexico City to Vera Cruz where more than half of Mexico’s population lives.

Although of late recounting, Mosiah Hancock gives a first hand account of Joseph Smith saying,

The next day the Prophet came to our home [and said,] ‘Now’, he said, ‘I will show you the travels of this people’. ‘You will build cities to the North and to the South’… ‘and you will have to go to where the Nephites lost their power… Placing his finger on the map, I should think about where Snowflake, Arizona is situated, or it could have been Mexico, he said.’ (Mosiah Hancock, Autobiography, 1834-1865 BYU Special Collections, full account available here. Original)

Levi Hancock, early friend of Joseph, member of Seventy and Council of fifty quotes Joseph Smith as saying to member of Zions Camp that the land of Desolation extended into the Great Plains.

Joseph Smith addressing himself to Sylvester Smith and said, “This is what I told you and now I want to tell you that you may know what I meant. This land [of western Missouri] was called the land of desolation and Onedages was the King and a good man was he. There in that mound did he bury his dead (Autobiography of Levi Hancock (1803-1882), pg. 27 – emphasis added. Original)

Both these quotes fall in line with Joseph’s well known support of a continental model for the Book of Mormon. But since the Book of Mormon clearly states that the Land of Desolation bordered the narrow neck, ONLY a Baja Narrow Neck can makes his model work! (see Alma 22:32–33, Alma 50:34, Alma 63:5)

Nothing in the Book of Mormon actually happens ON the Narrow Neck

It’s somewhat odd that in all the Book of Mormon accounts of occurrences in the Land of Desolation of things happening in association with the ‘narrow neck’, nothing ever happens ON the narrow neck. Instead its always explained as occurring BY the narrow neck. (Likewise the Narrow Passes are never said to be ON the Narrow Neck, but instead only BY it.)

Take Ether 10:20–21 for instance. Many Mesoamerican models attempt to equate the Jaredites almost exclusively with Olmecs living on the isthmus of Tehuantepec. But note the wording of the text for the Jaredite Narrow Neck spoken of in conjunction with Lib’s city. It isn’t built ON the narrow neck of land, but BY the narrow neck of land, BY a place where the sea divides or cuts into the land. (suggesting some kind of deep bay or inlet). And remember, the Jaredite heartland of Moron was said to be near (not on or in) “the land which is called Desolation by the Nephites” (Ether 7:6). It’s not in Bountiful or Desolation, but near Desolation, and Lib’s city is mentioned as if it’s a newly colonized area.

20 And [Lib and his people] built a great city by the narrow neck of land, by the place where the sea divides the land (Ether 10:20)

Does that wording really sound like an isthmus? Or does it sound more like the ‘narrow neck of land’ a geographic identifier representing a truly narrow neck of land / sea inlet like the Sea of Cortez & Baja Peninsula? This reading makes even more sense when we apply it to Alma 63:5 where Hagoth is said to build and launch his boat BY the Narrow Neck and yet still in the borderland of Bountiful near the Land Desolation.

5 …therefore [Haggoth] went forth and built him an exceedingly large ship, on the borders of the land Bountiful, by the land Desolation, and launched it forth into the west sea, by the narrow neck [of sea or land?] which led into the land northward. (Alma:63:5)

Again it’s unclear whether the Narrow Neck here is referring to a narrow neck of ‘land’, as in Ether 10, or a narrow neck of sea, which would actually make more sense given the context of Haggoth launching his boat.

Either way this makes little sense in relation to an isthmus like Tehuantepec, as launching south of it into the West Sea (Pacific) does not really provide much of a shortcut into the ‘land northward’ which is said to be an ‘exceedingly far distance’ and have large bodies of water and homes made of cement for lack of trees (Hel 3:4–11). It does however make a lot of sense if this is talking about the same ‘place where the water divides (cuts into) the land’ of Ether, which provides a travel corridor to take people from the mouth of the Rio Grande de Santiago in West Mexico, up the sea of Coretz to the Colorado River and into the Arizona, New Mexico, Sonora and all the regions of the ancient Puebloan people in the Desert Southwest.

The ‘Narrow Passes’ don’t go from sea to sea and are NEVER said to be ON the Narrow Neck

It’s also interesting to notice that most the time when Mormon speaks of the entire width of the land or region he lived on, he usually uses the descriptive phrase “from east sea to the west sea

-“divided from the land of Zarahemla by a narrow strip of wilderness, which ran from the sea east even to the sea west…” (Alma 22:27)
-“cover the face of the whole earth, from the sea south to the sea north, from the sea west to the sea east…” (Hel 3:8)

But when he refers to Desolation or Bountiful on the Book of Mormon’s “Narrow Neck”, he only specifically mentions ONE sea. Almost like the ancient author might THINK it’s an isthmus of sorts, but tries to stick to the wording of the maps & texts he’s copying which NEVER clearly say “from the east sea to the west sea” as they did with other parts of the land. Instead its always explained in terms of a pass on only one sea, with an ambiguous reference to the other.

-“distance of a day and a half’s journey for a Nephite, on the line Bountiful and the land Desolation, from the east to the west sea…” (Alma 22:32)
-“fortify against the Lamanites, from the west sea, even unto the east; it being a day’s journey for a Nephite, on the line which they had fortified…” (Hel 4:7)

The Eastern ‘pass’ in particular sounds as though it’s more complex than often thought. In Alma 34, a land border dispute between the people of the lands of Lehi & Morianton leads to the people of Morianton’s flight from the southern East Coast to the Land Northward. Although we don’t know how far the people of Morianton made it on their flight northward, we are told that a Nephite army “stops their flight… by the narrow pass which led by the sea… on the west and on the east”. A peculiar wording that seems to suggest an very narrow pass like a passable spit bar or something extremely thin with obvious and visible sea on both the east and west.

34 And it came to pass that they did not head them until they had come to the borders of the land Desolation; and there they did head them, by the narrow pass which led by the sea into the land northward, yea, by the sea, on the west and on the east. (Alma 50:34)

or

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The width of the ‘Narrow Passes’ are FAR less than Mesoamerican Isthmuses

Note that in the two examples of distances given in the Book of Mormon for the width of these passes we have a day or day and a half’s journey. Much as in the works of early Spanish codices transcribers like Ixlilxochitl, distances are always expressed in days instead of linear measurements. And although some debate exists on the distance of a day’s journey, Ixlilxochitl and most scholars place it at around 15 miles. Compare then the day and a half’s journey of Alma 22:32 and the days journey of Hel 4:6–7 (15-27 miles) to the shortest distances across Isthmuses like Tehuantepec (125 miles) or the Isthmus of Guatemala (160 miles) or even the narrowest part of the Isthmus of Darian in Panama (36 miles) and we see the problem with associating the Narrow Neck with these locations.

Even if we suggest the ‘defensive lines of Hel 4:6–7 and Alma 22:32 are simply fortified passes ON the Narrow Neck or Isthmus we still run into a MAJOR problem in all these locations, as NONE of them have defined narrow coastal passes on both sides which are 15-27 miles wide! The Northern coastal plain of Tehuantepec for instance is 50-60 miles wide! (Putting aside the fact that Tehuantepec’s passes face north and south, not east and west as the text suggests.

A place that DOES have easily fortifiable narrow coastal passes which span between the sea and steep mountain chains is northwest and northeast Mexico between the Sierra Madre Occidental, Oriental and the sea. These passes also lie directly north of Mexico’s most agriculturally ‘bountiful’ and populated region and directly south of the Sonoran desert where the landscape turns ‘desolate’, and where Joseph Smith said the land of desolation was!

In my continental model, rather than being oddities, each of these phrases end up being a truly specific description of different aspects of the ‘narrow neck’ area, which I interpret as Baja California, the Gulf of Baja or Sea of Cortez, and the narrow coastal passes between the Sierra Madre Occidental and Oriental and the east and west seas. This interpretation comes not only because it matches perfectly with the archaeology, and is really the only way to make a continental model of Book of Mormon lands which matches with both the text and early LDS prophetic statements. But also from noticing the overwhelming inclusion of the sea of Cortez in the histories and mythologies of the Aztec and other Mesoamerican cultures in the writings of early Aztec/Spanish historians like Ixlilxochtl.

In Modern times we separate the two regions of North America & Mesoamerica by the U.S./Mexican Border and the desolate central Mapimi depression/Chihuahua Desert of North Mexico. However, in both colonial and Book of Mormon times, when nearly all travel was along the West Mexico Coast, the two perhaps were colloquially separated in the minds of natives by Baja and the narrow neck of sea (the sea of Cortez & Baja), which ran parallel to a large desolate region of deserts (desolation).

Most Mesoamerican isthmuses are much, much wider than the passes or defensive lines spoken of in the Book of Mormon. Moreover, they are all south of Mesoamerica’s main pre-classic population center of the Valley of Mexico.

34 And it came to pass that they did not head them until they had come to the borders of the land Desolation; and there they did head them, by the narrow pass which led by the sea into the land northward, yea, by the sea, on the west and on the east. (Alma 50:34)

9 And he also sent orders unto him that he should fortify the land Bountiful, and secure the narrow pass which led into the land northward, lest the Lamanites should obtain that point and should have power to harass them on every side. (Alma 52:9)

5 And it came to pass that Hagoth, he being an exceedingly curious man, therefore he went forth and built him an exceedingly large ship, on the borders of the land Bountiful, by the land Desolation, and launched it forth into the west sea, by the narrow neck which led into the land northward. (Alma 63:5)

6 And the Nephites and the armies of Moronihah were driven even into the land of Bountiful;
7 And there they did fortify against the Lamanites, from the west sea, even unto the east; it being a day’s journey for a Nephite, on the line which they had fortified and stationed their armies to defend their north country.(Hel 4:6–7)

29 And the Lamanites did give unto us the land northward, yea, even to the narrow passage which led into the land southward. And we did give unto the Lamanites all the land southward. (Mormon 2:29)

5 And it came to pass that I did cause my people that they should gather themselves together at the land Desolation, to a city which was in the borders, by the narrow pass which led into the land southward.
6 And there we did place our armies, that we might stop the armies of the Lamanites, that they might not get possession of any of our lands; therefore we did fortify against them with all our force. (Mormon 3:5–6)

30 And it bordered upon the land which they called Desolation, it being so far northward that it came into the land which had been peopled and been destroyed, of whose bones we have spoken, which was discovered by the people of Zarahemla, it being the place of their first landing.
31 And they came from there up into the south wilderness. Thus the land on the northward was called Desolation, and the land on the southward was called Bountiful, it being the wilderness which is filled with all manner of wild animals of every kind, a part of which had come from the land northward for food.
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2 And now, it was only the distance of a day and a half’s journey for a Nephite, on the line Bountiful and the land Desolation, from the east to the west sea; and thus the land of Nephi and the land of Zarahemla were nearly surrounded by water, there being a small neck of land between the land northward and the land southward.
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3 And it came to pass that the Nephites had inhabited the land Bountiful, even from the east unto the west sea, and thus the Nephites in their wisdom, with their guards and their armies, had hemmed in the Lamanites on the south, that thereby they should have no more possession on the north, that they might not overrun the land northward. (Alma 22:32–33)

19 …And in the days of Lib the poisonous serpents were destroyed. Wherefore they did go into the land southward, to hunt food for the people of the land, for the land was covered with animals of the forest. And Lib also himself became a great hunter.
20 And they built a great city by the narrow neck of land, by the place where the sea divides the land.
21 And they did preserve the land southward for a wilderness, to get game. And the whole face of the land northward was covered with inhabitants. (Ether 10:20–21)

Another possibility: Mormon’s culture believing there to be a ‘Narrow Neck’ in North Mexico

In addition to the above reasoning it seems quite likely that ancient Mesoamericans had a different view of their continents geography than we do. A study of ancient maps and geographies shows that modern LDS Scholars have expected too much from ancient Book of Mormon authors by supposing pre-Columbian cultures had a truly advanced modern-like or google earth understanding of continental geography and shorelines. Indeed, although many ancients understood well the spatial relationships for populated lands & cities, or populated places often traveled, the detailed understanding of uninhabited wildernesses and far-off continental shorelines seems to have been very poor anciently. Especially among cultures without widespread use of nautical navigation technology. And our only indication in both the Book of Mormon text and early Colonial accounts is the wide spread use of Mexico’s west coast to travel between central Mexico and North America (perhaps because of contrary currents and frequent hurricanes which were so dangerous and common on the east coast?)

Aztec map, Codex Xolotl showing the spatial relationships of the Valley of Mexico juxtaposed against the Sebastian Munster map (1448-1552): Novae Insulae XXVI Nova Tabula (1540) [Rare 2nd State of first map of the continent of America]. Each are examples of the rudimentary spatial relationships inherent in pre-modern geographers views of the world. See high quality versions here and here.
To see a full catalogue of known Mesoamerican cartographic or map representations read "Mesoamerican Cartography" by Barbara Mundy or "The origins and development of the cartographic tradition in the central Mexican highlands" by Chris Helmke

Our model proposes that much like Sabastian Munster’s early map of the New World (featured above), Book of Mormon authors may have thought there to be another ‘narrow neck’ between the narrow coastal ‘passes’ of Northern Mexico. A misunderstanding likely caused by a belief that the Eastern and Western Sierra Madre mountain ranges were one and the same range. An easy mistake to make given their lack of travel through the nearly impenetrable and uninhabited Mapimi Basin of the Chihuahua Desert. Indeed historical texts show that essentially ALL ancient travel & trade, occurred along the ‘narrow passes’ between the coasts and the steep mountain ranges, with only a few sparsely inhabited mining communities existing in the Deserts of the northern interior.

Book of Mormon Geography
Illustration depicting the actual geography of North America versus what the ancient authors of the Book of Mormon may have thought the geography looked like

A few more examples of ancient maps, and how even among people’s with advanced writing and sea trade, knowledge of coastal geometries was rudimentary. Especially concerning areas where few lived or traveled.

Map of Ariana based on Eratosthenes' data (195 BC) in Strabo's Geography ( 63 BC – c. 24 AD)
Map of Ariana based on Eratosthenes’ data (195 BC) in Strabo’s Geography ( 63 BC – c. 24 AD)
Old antique map of Africa by S. Munster | Sanderus Antique Maps Old antique map of AFRICA showing: AMMON (IN LIBYA) MELLI: Latin- flowing with honey Mono Giant:

Surrounded by Water

Interestingly, the native word for the mexican highland and particularly the narrow highland of west-central mexico or valley of Mexico could actually be related to the concept spoken of in Alma 22:32 where it states, “…and thus the land of Nephi and the land of Zarahemla were nearly surrounded by water, there being a small neck of land between the land northward and the land southward.”

Although often translated as “close to water” or “next to water” and referring solely to the Valley of Mexico, when preceded by ‘Cem’ Ānáhuac is also thought to mean, “surrounded by water”. Cem Ānáhuac is a composed náhuatl name, consisting of the words “cem” (totally) and “Ānáhuac”, in turn a composed word from “atl” (water) and “nahuac”, a location prefix that can also mean “surrounded “. The name can then literally be translated as “land completely surrounded by water “, or “[the] whole of [what is] beside the waters”. See wikipedia links in text above and the Nahuatl dictionary for details.

Codex Quetzalecatzin, in the Jay I. Kislak Collection of the Archaeology of the Early Americas at the Library of Congress. The map covers an area between Mexico City and Puebla. With Nahuatl stylised graphics and hieroglyphs, it illustrates the family’s genealogy and their descent from Lord-11 Quetzalecatzin, who in 1480, was the major political leader of the region. It is from him the Codex derives one of its many names’. The document dates to between 1570 to 1595 and would have been made by an indigenous painter and scribe. See this link for more codice maps.

Note the words of Eugene Bolten in his book, Spanish exploration in the Southwest, 1542-1706. Where he notes it was not until at least 1687 that the Spanish fully prove Baja California was a Peninsula and not an island.

Arriving at his destination in 1687, [Father Kino] at once established the mission of Nuestra Senora de los Dolores… over a hundred miles south of Tucson. This mission was his headquarters for twenty- four years of exploration, missionary work, and writing. several times explored the Gila River; and in an attempt to answer the old question whether Califomia was an island or a peninsula…This inquiry was one of the chief interests of the last eleven years of his life, and, as a result of his explorations, he answered it to his own satisfaction in a treatise, as yet unpublished, I believe, which he called ” Cosmographical Demonstration that Califomia is not an Island but a Peninsula, and that it is continuous with this New Spain, the Gulf of Califomia ending in latitude thirty-five degrees

Spanish exploration in the Southwest, 1542-1706, Herber Eugene Bolton.

In this same book nearly the exact same language used in the Book of Mormon is used to describe the Baja California Peninsula.

This enterprise failing, [Father Kino] returned to Mexico and secured permission to work on the mainland opposite the Peninsula, [ie. by the narrow neck] which he had visited while in California. His request was that he might work among the Guaymas and Seris, but he was sent to Pimerfa Alta instead. (ibid)

Verse by Verse Analysis To References of the Narrow Neck

The Narrow neck, pass or defensive line mentioned as one of the most prominent geographic features of the Book of Mormon has proved to be incredibly enigmatic.  Far greater than the problems of King James Isaiah, Pauline language parallelisms, anachronistic metals or European animals in the Book of Mormon (which can generally be explained by proposing differing manners of dynamic equivalence translation and channeling processes), the narrow neck problem can almost seem insurmountable. Attempts to correlation the Panama Isthmus with the Book of Mormon gain few supporters for reasons that have been described elsewhere (ref). Perhaps the most supported theory of correlating the Isthmus of Tehuantepec with the Book of Mormon’s “narrow pass” has its own difficulties. Foremost of these is the fact that this model forces both the Nephite and Lamanite lands to be in historical Mayan territories. In these model’s Zarahemla (and the entire Nephite culture) are correlated with mundane Mayan cities which bear essentially no early cultural differences from their surrounding peoples (Lamanites)! Additionally these models require the Jaredites (Olmec) to pass writing to the Lehites (Maya) instead of the other way around as described in the Book of Mormon text. The political and religious dominance of the Epi-olmec and Mexican Highland cultures spanning from the formative to the classic are a far better match (and perhaps the only truly plausible match) with what the Book of Mormon narrative depicts of the Nephite/Lamanite religious and political rivalry..

Reference wording sea west mentioned? sea east mentioned? days jour-ney directional indicators
Alma 22:32–33 “small neck of land” or “the line Bountiful” yes possibly 1.5 from the east to the west sea
Alma 50:34 “the narrow pass” yes separately   by the sea, on the west and on the east
Alma 52:9 “the narrow pass”   no    
Alma 63:5 “the narrow neck” yes no   the west sea
Hel 4:6–7 “the line” yes possibly 1 from the west sea, even unto the east
Mormon 2:29 “the narrow passage”   no    
Mormon 3:5–6 “the narrow pass”   no    
           
Ether 10:20–21 “narrow neck of land” inferred inferred   place where the sea divides the land

Available literature in Joseph Smith’s day clearly called the Isthmus of Panama a “narrow neck” (see here for instance), But also, made clear that its distance was more than the “day” (ref) or “day and a half” (ref) mentioned in the Book of Mormon.  its curious then that if Joseph or some contemporary wrote the Book of Mormon, they would represent the geography SO horribly.    Letter from Balboa dated January 20, 1513. “The Indians state there is another ocean 3 days journey from here… they say the other ocean is very suitable for canoe traveling is always calm…”  (reference here)

This map from 1566 is one of the oldest printed maps of North America. Created by Paolo Forlani, the first edition was published in 1565. This second edition was published by Venetian Bolognino Zaltieri after Forlani sold the plate to him. This is one of the first maps to show the Bering Strait - here called the Strait of Anian. It was an educated guess, as it was not discovered until 1648. The map was bought by the Bartholomew family, who collected antique maps

This map from 1566 is one of the oldest printed maps of North America. Created by Paolo Forlani, the first edition was published in 1565. This is one of the first maps to show the Bering Strait – here called the Strait of Anian. It was an educated guess, as it was not discovered until 1648. Like many ancient maps, the geography is a very rough rendition of the true landscape. High quality version available here.

1569 Camocio Map. Several maps associate tolm or ‘tollan’ with Teguayo. Tolm is generally found in the present-day U.S. Southwest on 1500s-1600s era maps. Several maps, including the 1569 Camocio map, show its full spelling as Tolman, which is likely a variation of the Toltec homeland ‘tollan’. See here and here for a similar but higher quality version.

Map made by Italian Jesuit Giulio Aleni while he was working as a missionary in 1620s China

1620s Wanguo Quantu map, by Giulio Aleni, whose Chinese name (艾儒略) appears in the signature in the last column on the left, above the Jesuit IHS symbol.

1609 Shanhai Yudi Quantu (not by Ricci)

1728 Barreiro Map This is the oldest post-Columbian map which depicts the four migration points of ancient Mexican Indians found in later maps. Some sources also point to this region as a former home for people from Central and South America. See here for an ultra high quality version.

Mexico's huge closed basins (endorheic basins). These large desert regions have no outlet to the sea, and drain internally into large ephemeral lakes and desert playas.

Red outlines show Mexico’s huge closed basins (endorheic basins). These large, sparsely inhabited, desert regions have no outlet to the sea, and drain internally into large ephemeral lakes and desert playas. Settlement and travel through these regions seems to have been extremely rare anciently.

Map available to Joseph Smith in the early 1800's, done by John Carry, in 1811.

Map available to Joseph Smith in the early 1800’s, done by John Carry, in 1811.

SEE SEVERAL MORE HIGH QUALITY EARLY MAPS OF MEXICO AND THE AMERICAS HERE.

Q&A: Questions and Answers to Debatable Book of Mormon Geography Topics

Collection of Facebook and other social media conversations with other Book of Mormon Geography enthusiasts.

Q: Could John Sorenson’s logic concerning ‘Nephite North’ being an example of ancient Egyptian directionality be valid?

A: This highlights one of the primary weaknesses/problems of the Limited Mesoamerican models. Especially the Sorenson Grijalva Model.
You have to assume that the loose translation of the Book of Mormon changed the world pyramid to tower, and deer/etc to horse and all the other cultural world translations to modern equivalents, but then you have to also believe that the Nephite directional system was NOT translated to modern equivalents but left in a coordinate system rotated by 45 degrees, except when it wasn’t.

It’s especially problematic because as Sorenson fails to point out, neither the English, Hebrew or Egyptian roots match the limited mesoamerican 45 degree rotation very well in the ways you’d have to suppose.
For instance, the Dead Sea is called the “qadmoni” sea, i.e. the eastern sea in a few cases. Ezekiel 47:18, Joel 2:20, Zecharia 14:8 are examples of this. Hardly matching the 90 degree rotation ideas sorenson pushes.
In English the Germanic roots are
South = suð or sun
North = nórðrvegr or left way
East = austri or shine/ sunrise
West = vestri or sunset
In Egyptian they are
iAbtt – EAST, left side, left hand, sun birth, rebirth.
rsy – SOUTH, Ra/sun, head, in front, beginning, upper, elevated, up river.
imntt – WEST, right side, right hand, completion, death.
mHty – NORTH, feet, end, submerged, decline, behind, down river
In both the south is ‘sun’. (where the sun is most). In one north is left in the other east is left. In Hebrew east is front and North is left and south right… so again why wouldn’t the translators just translate the directions into our modern system using the same system as the bible with the rising sun being east? The Grijalva doesn’t even correspond to a cardinal direction, so to suppose they somehow followed the Egyptian system and named northwest, north doesn’t really make sense either.. (so what would they call the direction of the rising sun where the temples should face which would be southeast in sorenson’s system?)
Who knows… but Sorenson’s explanations are not entirely satisfactory to everyone.

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Q: How could hundreds of thousands of Nephite and Lamanites travel so far (2-4 thousand miles) from Mesoamerica to Cumorah during the final exodus and battles? Dont the logistics of such a move make it impossible?

A: Let me give you some thoughts on logistics. And once again…

1. We have ZERO indication of how many of either Nephites or Lamanites came from Zarahemla to the final battle. For all we know, they ALL came from desolation or Jordan. In my model scientists are working on figuring this out with dental isotope studies–because the dead bodies are everywhere.

2. The Nephite exodus happened over a period of 50+ year period! Zarahemla to Sherrizah/Boaz 321-370, Boaz to Jordan 5-10 years.. to Cumorah another 8 years (370-374). Want to do the math of how far you’d need to travel each day? (and once again we have no idea how many traveled? Just a few little clues in a couple areas

3. WATER! Like the saints who came from england, the Nephites/Lamanites would have UNDOUBTEDLY used water for transport. In my model their cities are predominantly along water trade hubs (all but about 200 miles of the way) IN FACT, logic suggests thats why cumorah was the battle spot. ITS THE END OF THE ROAD (the road being the Mississippi they used their canoes to travel)

5. BEASTS OF BURDAN. I don’t think they had horses. But Sahagun may suggest they used deer as tranport animals. I think they especially used dogs for transport.

The thing is… like I said, none of this is rocket science. As far as logistics is concerned, if you’re going one hudred miles, the logistics of going a few thousand is no different. You just do the exact same daily logistical thing, for a much longer period. You know this. I’m not sure why you’re so bent on finding ‘logistical’ problems of the final battles, that honestly exist in ALL models.

I cover these issues and more in my critique article of the 2 cumorah theories. Which of course are possible modals. I just don’t think they fit the evidence nearly as well as a continental model like Joseph’s or mine.

.

Q: Was the Land Desolation called Desolation because it had no trees or because it had no people or because it was a desert or wilderness region?

A: I believe all three. The text says,

“4 And they did travel to an EXCEEDINLY great distance, insomuch that they came to large bodies of water and many rivers.

5 Yea, and even they did spread forth into all parts of the land, into whatever parts it had not been rendered desolate and without timber, because of the many inhabitants who had before inherited the land.

6 And now no part of the land was desolate, save it were for timber; but because of the greatness of the destruction of the people who had before inhabited the land it was called desolate.

7 And there being but little timber upon the face of the land, nevertheless the people who went forth became exceedingly expert in the working of cement; therefore they did build houses of cement, in the which they did dwell.

8 And it came to pass that they did multiply and spread, and did go forth from the land southward to the land northward, and did spread insomuch that they began to cover the face of the whole earth, from the sea south to the sea north, from the sea west to the sea east.

9 And the people who were in the land northward did dwell in tents, and in houses of cement, and they did suffer whatsoever tree should spring up upon the face of the land that it should grow up, that in time they might have timber to build their houses, yea, their cities, and their temples, and their synagogues, and their sanctuaries, and all manner of their buildings.

10 And it came to pass as timber was exceedingly scarce in the land northward, they did send forth much by the way of shipping.

11 And thus they did enable the people in the land northward that they might build many cities, both of wood and of cement.”

Sounds like the best match in North America to me….

I see your reasoning of the idea that the Jaredites cut down ALL THE TREES & left some bodies laying on the ground and thats the ONLY reason it was called desolate. That doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me, because it had been 100-250 years by that point. Plenty of time from trees to grow back. I think thats just one reason he states here of the obvious one he doesn’t state. Its desolate.

The valley of mexico works for the ‘large body of water’ (not so much for bodies, but maybe they were including west mexico lakes). The many rivers also not so much. (compared to where they were coming from anyway)

I’m not going to be so lame as to say “that eliminates the Land of Desolation from being the valley of mexico”

But I do think the heartlanders have so much support because the eastern us really is a better land of many waters.

https://gatheredin.one/…/comparing-book-of-mormon…/…

Animals in the Book of Mormon

ElephantsCureloms and CumomsCattle, Oxen, and Cows
GoatsSheepSwine
Ass & Horse

 

Many Book of Mormon critics try to show issues or anachronisms with the lists of animals found in its narrative; for example the Wikipedia articles on Book of Mormon Archaeology and Book of Mormon Anachronisms. The Book of Mormon certainly has its issues, but reading these animal issue attacks always seems strangely biased to me. In fact articles like this have so many blatant falsities that they’re a bit difficult for a well-read person to stomach and have been thoroughly debunked. However, to really do justice to the range of animals said to be found in the Book of Mormon one really must adopt a continental model for the Book of Mormon text, as several of the animals mentioned are found only in Western North America.

Throughout this article, keep in mind that our model places the Nephites primarily in the Mexican Highland, the Land of Nephi in the Oaxaca highland (Monte Alban), the Lamanite heartland in Chiapas & the Yucatan and the Nephite ‘Land Northward’ and Jaredites primarily in the U.S. Southwest, Northwest Mexico and the Eastern U.S.— the early Jaredite record being an abridged oral & channeled history spanning from the Ice age to the Nephite era.

The Book of Mormon makes clear that both Jaredites and Nephites who lived in ancient times on this continent had domestic animals of various kinds. They also speak of wild varieties of presently domesticated animals. The earlier people, the Jaredites (unknown beginning to ~300 B.C.), are reported to have had,

all manner of cattle, of oxen, and cows, and of sheep, and of swine, and of goats, and also many other kinds of animals which were useful for the food of man. And they also had horses, and asses, and there were elephants and cureloms and cumoms; all of which were useful unto man, and more especially the elephants and cumoms. (Ether 9:18–19)

The Nephites (c. 600 B.C. – 400 A.D.) on the other hand tell us,

that there were beasts in the forests of every kind, both the cow and the ox, and the ass and the horse, and the goat and the wild goat, and all manner of wild animals, which were for the use of men. (1 Nephi 18:25)

“…and they had taken their horses, and their chariots, and their cattle, and all their flocks, and their herds, and their grain, and all their substance, and did march forth by thousands”  (3 Nephi 3:22, cf. Mosiah 5:14; Enos 1:12; Alma 5:59; Alma 17)

From these lists its clear that, if true, the Book of Mormon translators, like Spanish Chroniclers of the sixteenth century, employed a dynamic equivalence technique in their translation of animals. Translating the ancient animals into analogous animals Joseph Smith and early Americans would recognize. Its also quite likely that Mormon as an ancient translator and compiler projected some of his own ‘Land Northward’ (Desolation) understanding of North American animals onto the ancient texts from Mesoamerica that he was transcribing. The types of animals in each list consequently might tell us something about the locations these groups lived.

 

Elephants

Note that Elephants are in the list for animals useful for the early Jaredites. With the exception of small island pockets, and a few DNA samples in Northern Alaska, evidence for the extinction of remaining North American Elephants (Mammoth & Mastodon) and other megafauna during the Younger Dryas climate event by the radiocarbon dates of ~10,000 BC is overwhelmingly conclusive. This requires that the early Jaredite record was older than most people believe. (Perhaps including the Book of Mormon authors themselves?) Unless radiocarbon dates for that highly variable climatic period are somehow wrong, it seems likely that the Jaredite record (much like the Biblical & Babylonian records) may have presented spliced or fragmented genealogies in a condensed, linear form leading back to the ancient Babel tower myth where mankind spread throughout the globe. (In other words there is likely missing time that is not accounted for in the record.) The mention of elephants and other extinct animals, along with the obvious fact that the Book of Mormon tells us the Jaredites were the first inhabitants of this continent is the most striking evidence for our correlated timeline which correlates the early pre-dearth Jaredites with North American Paleo-Indians living prior to the end of the ice age. (The “dearth” in Ether 9:30 being the younger dryas: a massive episode of climate change ending the last ice age cycle.) Because of the mention of elephants as well as two other apparently extinct megafauna which were “especially useful [for the food of] man”, correlating the Paleo-Indian with the archaic cultures of North America is really the best plausible correlation. This is certainly plausible since the record itself does not give any concrete dates for the Jaredite culture (only a genealogy table). There are literally thousands of archeological sites showing that the Clovis and Paleo-Indians lived on diets rich in megafauna.  Many archaeologists have in fact suggested that these native American groups may have been responsible for hunting many of these animals to extinction. This highly debated theory gives a lot of weight to the idea given in the book of Ether where it states that BOTH a climate event and hunting did them in.

30 And it came to pass that there began to be a great dearth upon the land, and the inhabitants began to be destroyed exceedingly fast because of the dearth, for there was no rain upon the face of the earth.
31 …And it came to pass that their flocks began to flee… towards the land southward, which was called by the Nephites Zarahemla…
34 And it came to pass that the people did follow the course of the beasts, and did devour the carcasses of them which fell by the way, until they had devoured them all. (Ether 9:30–34)

size comparison of mammoth, mastodon and African elephants

Cureloms and Cumoms

Many other extinct Pleistocene megafauna fit the description of Jaredite animals mentioned in the Book of Mormon. Paleoindians were known to subsist on Gomphotheres and perhaps even giant sloths; short-faced bears; several species of tapirs; saber-toothed cats like smilodon; dire wolves; saiga; camelids such as two species of now extinct llamas and camelops. Since it is generally accepted that “cureloms and cumoms” were especially “useful for the food of man”  (Ether 9:18–19), and unknown to Mormon in translation (not necessarily Joseph Smith), I think the most likely candidates are the giant sloth, wooly rhino and camelids.

18 …and also many other kinds of animals which were useful for the food of man.

19 And they also had horses, and asses, and there were elephants and cureloms and cumoms; all of which were useful unto man, and more especially the elephants and cureloms and cumoms.

A few of the many North American megafauna which co-existed with the paleoindians. (nearly all of which went extinct at the end of the ice age (which we correlate with the "great dearth" spoken of in the Book of Mormon).

A few of the many North American megafauna which co-existed with the paleoindians. (nearly all of which went extinct at the end of the ice age (which we correlate with the “great dearth” spoken of in the Book of Mormon).

Cattle, Oxen, and Cows

Concerning the Jaredite “cattle, of oxen, and cows” mentioned in Ether 9:18, likely matches would have to be American Bison (subfamily Bovinae/bovine), shrub ox (family Bovidae: went extinct with other megafauna); Harlan’s muskox (family: bovidae, subfamily: caprinae), Moose (family Cervidae, could have been classified as either cow or horse by Mormon/Ether depending on their cultural classification system) and for Mesoamerica and 1 Nephi 18:25, Baird’s Tapir which is locally known as the “Mountain Cow”. Each of these species ranged far south of their current habitat during the last Ice Age. There is of course no evidence for moose or shrub ox in Mexico, so the only option for the Nephite list is Bison as an Ox, which historical accounts put as far south as Zacatecas (Lst et. al 2007); and Tapir, perhaps as a swine or cow type animal. (It’s certainly nothing like a horse! LOL)   And since the Nephite list excludes “cattle” we can assume they were not yet familiar with cows as a herd animal (such as Bison herds on the plains) at the time 1 Nephi 18:25 was written.

Early Spanish explorers like Cabaza de Vaca with native interpreters also called Bison cows in his dairy saying,

“They described some cows which, from a picture that one of them had painted on his skin, seemed to be cows, although from the hides this did not seem possible, because the hair was woolly and snarled so that we could not tell what sort of skins they had.” (The Narrative of Alvara Nunuz Cabeza de Vaca. Ch 12. v. 1)

cattle, oxen and cows

cattle, oxen and cows

 

Large tapir.

A large Baird’s Tapir. Also known to the indigenous as the “Mountain Cow”.

Goats

Possibilities include North American Mountain Goats. (Our current scientific classification system does not include this animal in the Capra genus with most goats, but Joseph or Mormon could have very well have been referring to this type of animal).

The North American Mountain Goat.

The North American Mountain Goat.

The Nephite animal list differentiates between “goats and wild goats”. Although modern botanists classify North American antelope into a different family than goats (Antiloocapridae vs. Bovidae), you can see how similar the the two animals look. Antelope were known to be a major food staple of assorted Mesoamerican groups like the early Zapotecs ranging as far south as Oaxaca during the archaic period. More recently their range stops near the valley of Mexico, although disease has nearly caused their extinction in many areas since colonial times. This may very well be the wild and non-wild goat that the Nephites were referring to. Since the range of North American Mountain Goat does not seem to stretch far south of the US border into Mexico, it may be the Mormon as a translator of Nephi’s writings projected his own understanding of the animals of his region (north-most west Mexico & Southwest US) on the record.

North American pronghorn antelope compared to both European and Middle Eastern varieties of goats.

North American pronghorn antelope (left) compared to both European and Middle Eastern varieties of goats (middle and right).

Sheep

Many species of wild sheep are indigenous to north america. Including Rocky Mountain big horn, Dall Ram, Desert big horn. See wild sheep of north america for details. Note that sheep are not mentioned in the Nephite animal lists, only the Jaredite. This is fitting since, unlike antelope (goats) and bison (cows), no North American sheep are known to have ranged very far south into Mexico.

Spanish Explorer Cabaza de Vaca who after being marooned in the New World lived with the Natives many years claimed that the hills around Sinaloa contained both indigenous “sheep and goats”.

“Between Suya and Chichilticalli there are many sheep and mountain goats with very large bodies and horns. Some Spaniards declare that they have seen flocks of more than a hundred together, which ran so fast that they disappeared very quickly” (The Narrative of Alvara Nunuz Cabeza de Vaca. Ch 2. v. 5)

A few of North America's native sheep species include the Peninsular Ram, the Dall's sheep the Peninsular Ram and the Rocky Mountain Ram

A few of North America’s native sheep species include (shown from left to right above) the Peninsular Ram, the Dall’s sheep the Peninsular Ram and the Rocky Mountain Ram.

Swine

Note this is not mentioned in the Nephite list of animals, only the Jaredite list.. Perhaps because many of the larger ranging North American peccaries (Including the long nosed and flat-headed peccaries) went extinct with other megafauna. Pigs (family Suidae) are not native to the Americas, however peccaries, which are native to the Americas (family Tayassuidae) have roamed limited parts of the continent since the demise of their relatives at the end of the ice age. Collared peccary composed a major part of Oaxacan Zapotec diet into the classic era. Tapirs are also somewhat reminiscent of pigs. They are prevalent in central america and grow to be six and a half feet in length and can weigh more than six hundred pounds. Many zoologists and anthropologists have compared the tapir’s features to those of a cross between a pig and a cow.

Extinct North American peccary, living meso-american jungle peccary and north american dessert javelina

Extinct North American peccary (shown left), living North American dessert javelina (center), and Mesoamerican jungle peccary (right).

Ass & the Horse

Domestication of caribou, bison, reindeer, and even elk are not uncommon.

Isolated domestication of caribou, bison, reindeer, and even elk are not uncommon.

Horses aren’t specifically mentioned in the Book of Mormon as being the type of animal that carried people. In fact in the instances that they are mentioned in relation to “chariots”, the wording could easily be referring to some type of supply slay (3 Nephi 3:22; Alma 18:9–12).  So its actually pretty plausible that the Book of Mormon translators used the biblical/European word “horse” to refer to a different type of native animal.  Just as Reindeer are the “horse” of Norse peoples, it seems fairly possible that the purported Book of Mormon channelers translated words for White-tale and Mule Deer (or even Elk, North American caribou or moose for those living farther north) in instances it was used. Note this is exactly what was done by early Aztec writers, as Sahagún in his Florentine Codex calls the Spanish horses “deer”.  (see Bk 12, Ch. 1 par. 7 & Bk 12 Ch. 7 par. 8)  In fact in the second instance Sahagún’s reference to the Aztec calling the Spanish horses “deer”, the wording sounds as though they were somewhat familiar with the idea of deer in warfare as supply animals but completely amazed by deer which were strong and tall enough to actually carry a man.

Their deer carry them upon their backs. They are as high as rooftops. (Sahagún, 1545-1590)

Moctezuma took it as a great and evil omen when he saw the stars and the mamalhuaztli. And when he looked at the bird’s head a second time a little further, he saw a crowd of people coming, armed for war on the backs of deer… (The Florentine Codex, Book 12)

In fact, both elk and deer have been readily domesticated in modern times. Elk farming in North America has become increasingly popular in recent years and Siberian natives have been domesticating elk and deer for thousands of years. Europeans also have occasionally domesticated deer for hundreds of years. (Although they don’t tend to stay domesticated long.) Deer in most national parks and many urban settings as well as Elk in National Parks such as the Grand Canyon and Yellowstone have become so docile as to cause problems by their constant dependence and interaction with people. There are even numerous historic images of old cowboys riding elk. It seems logical that if many Nordic cultures could get a caribou to pull a sleigh then it is certainly plausible that some talented ‘deer whisperers’ could train a strong mule deer to pull a ceremonial supply ‘chariot’ as mentioned in Alma 18:9–12. I also find it interesting that settlers named the deer species O. hemionus “Mule Deer” because the animals large ears reminded them so much of a Mule or Ass. Deer are incredibly common in Mexico and even provided a main source of food for cultures as far south as the Yucatan Peninsula and Guatemala.

In fact, in the next section an example from an early Spanish historian is given of the kings of the valley of Mexico fencing in herds of deer.

The idea that Book of Mormon references to “horses” refereed to tapirs, is far too much of a stretch in my opinion. I’m not sure why anyone would suggest such a thing when there are such better alternatives.

comparisons of African wild ass, European ass and North American mule deer.

Comparisons of African wild ass (left), European ass (center) and North American mule deer (right).

 

Comparison of modern horse and North American cow Elk.

Comparison of modern horse and North American Elk (shown at right).

Flocks & Herds

The Book of Mormon makes frequent mention of “flocks and herds”. In addition to the animals mentioned above it is relevant to note that archeological evidence shows that many Mesoamerican peoples bred, raised and subsisted on animals such as dog, turkey, rabbit and deer. Archaeological evidence indicates dogs and deer were a substantial part of the Mayan diet. In fact, at the Colha site, white-tailed deer accounted for up to fifty percent of the Maya meat source. Likewise, Zapotec cultures relied heavily on deer and domesticated dog and turkey. It makes sense that, many of the references to “flocks and herds” may be referring primarily to these animals. Early Zapotec peoples are also known to have subsisted on antelope— of which similar species have been readily domesticated in various areas of Asia and Africa.  Peccary and tapir are also well known indigenous animals which could have been primary components of Book of Mormon “flocks and herds”. Although evidence for animal domestication in Mesoamerica is hard to come by, this may well be because it is often difficult, if not impossible, to tell the difference between a wild animal and a domesticated animal from archaeological food remains.

The early Spanish chronology Mariano Veytia in his “Ancient History talks about the ancient emperors created fenced enclosures for deer & other animals, 

“Nezahualcoyotl… gathered a large stash of materials, and prepared a large number of workers; and seeing the site of Chapoltepec as suitable for a hunting forest, he ordered it to be formed, fenced, and stocked with deer, rabbits, hares, and other animals, allocating it as a place of amusement” (Ancient History, p.142)

No evidence of these fences have been found by archaeologist… almost certainly because they were made of reeds or some other highly perishable material.

A study on The archaeology of Mesoamerican Animals food uses in the Valley of Oaxaca (out Land of Nephi) list the following animals as major food staples throughout the early to late formative and early classic periods. Collared peccary, gray fox, raccoon, ringtail spotted skunk, long-tailed weasel, nine-banded armadillo and opossum, ducks, band-tailed pigeon, mourning dove, guan, montezuma quail, coot, raven finches and Turkey. (see, Animal Economies in prehispanic southern mexico, Gotz & Emery)

De Soto speaks of indigenous tribes having major food staples of  rabbits and partridges, dogs, and turkeys. (Ch.13.p168.)
Plains herds of bison, elk, deer, and antelope historically ranged into Texas, New Mexico and well down into northwest Mexico. The early Spanish explorer Onate, like many early explorers described the Bison and cattle and compared the ‘deer’ (actually elk) to horses.

…nearly every day and wherever we went as many cattle came out as are to be found in the largest ranches of New Spain and they were so tame that nearly always, unless they were chased or frightened… All these cattle are of one color, namely brown, and it was a great marvel to see a white bull in such a multitude. Their form is so frightful that one can only infer that they are a mixture of different animals… This river is thickly covered on all sides with these cattle and with another not less wonderful, consisting of deer which are as large as large horses. They travel in droves of two and three hundred and their deformity causes one to wonder whether they are deer or some other animal. (Spanish exploration in the Southwest, 1542-1706, Herbert Bolton, p255)

Below is an example from Nara deer park in Japan, of how easy it is to partially domesticate wild animals… you simply need to give them a reliable food source.

Although it is certainly possible that the Book of Mormon was written by Joseph Smith or one of his contemporaries, instead of being channeled from heaven or translated from an ancient record–the supposed animal “anachronisms” are not a very solid argument against its authenticity.

Domesticating Deer. Nora Deer Park, Japan

 
 

Video of man Riding Buffalo

Video of man attempt at Riding Elk

Video of man attempted Moose Ride

Video of domesticating Antelope

A little detail behind why the only animals that Native American’s had much success Domesticating were, turkey, dog, and possibly deer & bison on a more limited basis.

Summary of Points

So in summary. There seems to be a lot of inconsistent thinking when it comes to animals in the Book of Mormon and particularly, Jaredite animal lists.
Elephants are only mentioned very early in the Jaredite timeline. And they are mentioned after “cattle, oxen and cows” as well as “sheep, and of swine, and of goats”, and in conjunction with 2 animals with no modern translation.

-So if the Book of Mormon “elephants” are tapirs… what are “swine, and cattle, oxen and cows”
-If b.o.m. Cureloms and Cumoms are alpacas, what are “sheep and goats and horses?”
-if b.o.m. Elephants are mammoths that held out (with ZERO archaeological evidence) in some isolated pocket until 1800 BC, then what are “Cureloms and Cumoms”? And why didn’t Mormon translate these words?
-If b.o.m. Elephants, Cureloms and Cumoms still existed into Nephite times don’t you think they’d be mentioned in the Nephite animal list of 1 Nephi 18:25; cf. Mosiah 5:14; Enos 1:12; Alma 5:59?

The record states that after the climate catastrophe/dearth, ” the people did follow the course of the beasts, and did devour the carcasses of them which fell by the way, until they had devoured THEM ALL” (Ether 9:30–34)
I’ve found nearly all articles trying to correlate these Book of Mormon animals with real American animal groups are HIGHLY inconsistent over either geographic region or time or both.

Really the best and perhaps only way to resolve these inconsistencies, and still consider the translation of the Book of Mormon to be divine where higher beings are attempting to match ancient animals with their available modern counterparts is to suggest that Elephants are Mammoths, Cureloms and Cumoms are two other genre or species of extinct megafauna (Gomphotheres are a good possibility for one), and that the ‘dearth’ is the Younger Dryas extinction event which, along with over hunting, killed off most megafauna in the Americas.
https://beta.capeia.com/…/disappearance-of-ice-age…

To make these lists work, also requires accepting that the Jaredites ranged into North America… not just Mesoamerica or South America… as otherwise, there are just not enough good matches to “cattle, of oxen, and cows, and of sheep, and of swine, and of goats, and also many other kinds of animals which were useful for the food of man… also horses and asses and elephants…

-Elephants = Mammoths
-Cureloms and Cumoms = Extinct megafauna with no similar modern equivalents. (Gomphotheres, Megatherium, Amphicyon? Paraceratherium?)
-Cattle, oxen and cows = American Bison, Shrub Ox, Musk Ox, Tapir (Note the Nephite list excludes cattle, suggesting they were not associated with herds of cow. Which makes sense if they were mainly in Mesoamerica where there were no large bison herds.)
-Goats = Pronghorn antelope and North American mountain goat. (Another evidence for the Mexican Highland model, as there is no evidence for these animals south of Oaxaca/Tehuantepec).
-Sheep = Rocky Mountain big horn, Dall Ram, Desert big horn (once again sheep are not mentioned in the Nephite animal lists, only the Jaredite which again works perfectly for Jaredites in North America, and Nephites in Mesoamerica/Mexican Highland)
-Swine = North American peccaries (only in Jaredite list… so likely not referring to Tapirs)
-Ass & the Horse = Mule deer and Elk or other types of deer (The Florentine Codex has the natives calling the Spanish ‘horses’, deer.)
Flocks & Herds = dog, turkey, rabbit and deer.

MesoAmerican/Mayan influence on Mississippian Culture

from https://www.facebook.com/notes/suppressed-histories-archives/mound-building-in-north-america-is-old/375806979116303/

Recently, claims of Maya migrations to Georgia have gotten a lot of attention. A long-standing pattern interprets North America as a backwater that absorbed influences from Mesoamerica, repeatedly assumed to be more advanced. in “America’s Lost City,” Andrew Lawler lays out a body of archaeological evidence for major mound complexes in Louisiana and Illinois that predate the Maya and even Olmec ceremonial complexes. (Sorry, link does not give the full article: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/334/6063/1618.summary)

 

First, the great ceremonial center of Cahokia was even larger than first imagined. They started excavating East St Louis in a big rush before the building of a bridge and road, and found out that Cahokia extended to that area ten km to its east. It was a vast metropolis, home to tens of thousands of people. They traded extensively with faraway places, and settlements closely linked to Cahokia have been found in places like Trempeauleau, Wisconsin. “As recently as the 1950s, a popular scientific theory touted ancient Mayans rather than Native Americans as the mounds’ creators.” But Lawler says scholars are reevaluating things in the light of evidence that the roots of the mound-building cultures “stretch back even earlier than the grand civilizations of Mesoamerica.” Cahokia itself, if it had been found in the Maya country, “would be a top 10 of all Mesoamerican cities,” in the words of John Clark.

 

It’s well known that the largest mound there equates in footprint to the Great Pyramid, in circumference to the Pyramid of the Sun in Mexico. Scholars have authenticated mound alignments with sunrise at solstices and equinoxes. Archaeologists are excavating another ceremonial settlement 64 km to the south of Cahokia, with its own plaza and mounds. They are finding that people came from all over the Midwest to settle here. There were workshops making ornaments from pipestone, red jasper, copper, and other materials. They’ve also investigated why the city collapsed around 1300, with extensive evidence of floods, droughts, and other changes in weather.

The curved rows of mounds at Poverty Point, circa 1400 bceThe curved rows of mounds at Poverty Point, circa 1400 bce

But Cahokia is fairly well known. The more significant information in this article is the demonstration of the antiquity of mound-building cultures in the Mississippi and Ohio river basins. I’ve posted images here before from Poverty Point, Louisiana, which was another ceremonial complex far older than Cahokia. These northern lands of Louisiana are rich in mounds and ancient villages with radiocarbon dates back to the Middle Archaic period “which ended at about 3000 BCE.”  Lawler contextualizes this for us: “That’s nearly 2 millennia before the first cities appeared in Mexico, before the Giza periods, and about the same time that the world’s first major urban centers evolved in ancient Mesopotamia [Iraq]. Most researchers dismissed the dates as erroneous.” Yes, they often do when evidence contradicts their expectations. Archaeologist Joseph Saunders began to study the mounds in northern Louisiana: the six mounds at Hedgepeth, another six at Frenchman’s Bend, along with village remains, and Watson Brake with eleven mounds, and dates going back to 3500 bce. Saunders lays out three major cultural waves of mound-creation. The first emerged in the lower Mississippi valley, 3700-2700 bce. The second, in the same region, centered on Pottery Point, 1600-1000 bce, with a gigantic flying bird mound, 22 m tall and 200m long. It lies atop another set of concentric hemispherical earthworks that covers three hectares, along with other conical and platform mounds. The people here had a vast trade network reaching to the Great Lakes. They made female figurines of clay, carved animals of jasper and other fine stones, and large numbers of bone awls show that they were working leather.

Clay figurines from Poverty Point, LousianaClay figurines from Poverty Point, Lousiana

Even more intriguingly, archaeologists are discovering, “The proportions used at the Louisiana sites closely match those found in Mesoamerica.” They are now considering the possibility that Louisiana may have influenced the Mexican civilization rather than vice versa.  The third period of mound construction started in the early centuries CE, in the Ohio river network of the Adena and “Hopewell” cultures, and culminated with Cahokia, Moundville, Alabama, and other medieval American temple complexes.

 

After the European conquests, many mounds became overgrown and no longer even recognizable as made by humans. “Mostly, the mounds were ignored and then destroyed.” Farmers leveled them, treasure hunters ransacked them, as they did to Spiro Mound in Oklahoma, and cities bulldozed them. The shellmounds in California were similarly destroyed, the burials taken away by the tens of thousands, and still held captive in museums like the Lowie at UC – Berkeley. In Peru, treasure-seekers went so far as to divert streams in the attempt of laying open the adobe pyramids of the Moche. This process of destruction continues today. These historical monuments of immeasurable value are subject to the whims of property owners. The article describes how developers planned to destroy the mounds at Frenchman’s Bend, some of the oldest known, so that they could make a golf course on the site. State and federal law offer no protections for these heritage sites. The archaeologists scramble to talk owners into preserving them, and sometimes even buy up the land to protect the mounds.

 

Update:

I just ran across a reference to dramtic corroborating evidence from Mexican archaeology. Tom Gidwitz in “Cities upon Cities” in Archaeology magazine, Jul/Aug 2010, writes about how new digs in Huastec country “may reveal links between Huasteca settlements and mound-building cultures in the United States.” He continues: “For decades, archaeologists have theorized that North America’s Late Woodland and Mississippian cultures drew inspiration from the Huastecas, but after their excavations at Tamtoc in the 1990s, Dávila and Zaragoza became convinc…ed that cultural influence, and perhaps actual migration, spread from north to south. They unearthed objects that seemed to come from the American Southeast in about AD 900: a fragment of a sheet of hammered copper, a pointed metal hand tool, a piece of engraved shell, a cache of a dozen whole and 20 fragmented Cahokia projectile points, and pottery that could have come from sites to the north such as Etowah [Georgia] and Moundville [Alabama].”I pulled this quote off of a fragmentary jpg on the net. When i track down the article, I’ll post more about it. In the meantime, here are two engraved shells whose stylistic similarity struck me a decade ago. On the right, from the Mound-temple cultures of the Mississippi basin, and on the left, from the Huastecs of eastern Mexico, the very group now being investigated for northern cultural influences. Check out the hatch-marking especially.

 

Right: Mississippi basin; left: Huastec, Veracruz, Mexico.

 

reblogged from http://globalwarming-arclein.blogspot.com/2012/01/mayan-influence-on-mississippian.html

In this case it is taken as a given that the Mississippian cultures are a cultural conglomerate: MESOAMERICA IS ONE OF THOSE CULTURAL CENTERS WHICH GOES INTO THAT CONGLOMERATE. We already KNOW that the temple mounds come out of Mesoamerican pyramids and are something new and different when they come into the mound area. Similarly, there are other features which seem to be part of that same package that came with the idea of those temple mounds. So going around saying “No Mayas here, HaHaHaHaHa!” does not automatically make the person that says it sound smart. The whole reasoning on that score seems to be that the presumption is absurd. The presumption is NOT absurd, it is already a given that something along those lines MUST have occurred. These cultures do not exist eternally as unchanging packages that evolved locally and never had any outside input from cultures further off. THAT is the absurd pretense. There is no assumption that the temple mounds simply involved in situ from burial mounds: there was a radical change in what the mounds meant and what they were made for.

We are talking about the Yucatan Mayas. It is known as an established fact that these Mayas traded as far as Puerto Rico and that there are many of their characteristic ball courts there. The location in question in Georgia is as far from Yucatan as Puerto Rico is, by direct measure on the map.

Now then, as to The Examiner. I do not know what kind of intellectual elitism is going on here but conceptually there is little difference between a “content farm” and the Wikipedia. IN THEORY the Wikipedia should be better checked and independently confirmed. In actual practice, I have found all too many time I have put quite valid information up on Wikipedia only to see it repeatedly torn down by some know-nothing that has their own pet theory to push, and they can quite obviously fly in the face of published authority and even mathematical proofs if only they are persistent enough. The end result is that anybody in the world can put something up on Wikipedia and the information can bear little relationship to the truth of the matter. So I would say don’t go around looking to ANY one authority, ALL authorities have flaws. Read all you can from every source you can, and don’t take anything anybody ever tells you at face value. I loved my mom dearly, but when I became an adult I found that all through my childhood she had been giving me misinformation that was deliberately meant to warp my views. And there was no malice to it, she simply believed very firmly in certain wrong things and she would drum those wrong things into me.

But actually, if something is true it will be true no matter who should say it, and if a matter is false it will be false no matter who says it. The whole basic concept of a “Reliable source” can be misleading, nobody is ever 100% correct. After a while you will come to know what is a good idea or a bad idea from your own perspective. And I am not about to try to tell you what you should think is right or wrong for you, all I can do is make some suggestions about what sounds right or wrong from MY perspective.

 

The first feature to be noted is that a new ethnic element intrudes into the Mississippi Valley area at the beginning of Mississippian times. They show traits of their cranial anatomy which resemble Mexicans and Mayans more than the Eastern Woodlands tribes and they tend to be somewhat shorter. They also deform their skulls in the same way as the Mayans do. Yes, they are coneheads. At some Mississippian sites it is difficult to find skulls which were NOT deformed in infancy.

The next thing to be noted is that they represent themselves artistically in a manner reminiscent of the Mayans and other South-Mexican cultures, with similar red-pottery figurines:

Now as to the pottery which is allegedly just like Mayan Pottery: That part is true also but it does not begin to tell the whoile story. In fact this is something which has been known for a long time and is one of the key features to understanding the Mississippian cultures. In 1928, Dr. G. C. Valiant published Resemblances in Ceramics of Central and North America, after doing a series of investigations in Mexico for the American Museum of Natural History. He had discovered a series of ceramic traits which he called the “Q Complex” for convenience’s sake. He introduced his subject with these words:

I shall endeavour to call attention to several curious parallels found mainly in the ceramics of Central America and the Southwestern and Southeastern United States That seem to indicate some sort of a relationship, even taking into account the barrier of five hundred kilometers of archaeologically unknown territory…While the Antillean influence on the far southeastern United States is attributable to direct contact[and known settlements over much of Florida-DD]…The traits existing in the pottery of the Western drainage of the Mississippi and to a lesser degree in Tennessee [and adjoining Georgia and Alabama-DD], however, are of a character that indicates a stronger source of infection than a symbolism brought in perhaps by exiles from another land. In short, in the Western Mississippi valley, there exists apparently some sort of action by one culture upon another. These ceramic traits which are quite foreign to the run of the pottery of the eastern states include:

1. Tripod support of vessels.

2.Funnel-necked jars.

3.Double-bodied jars.

4.Rarely, the shoe form of vessel.

5.the high and low form of annular base for vessels.

6. Spout handles

7.the composite silhouette form of bowl.

8. Vessels modeled in the effigy of animals or humans.

9. Vessels with spouts, in plain and in effigy

10. Vessels with the head or features attached

 

And ended with the conclusions that:

It does not seem possible to explain away such parallels as these by independent invention of styles since the basis of the ceramic development of the Eastern United States does not seem to contain the germs for this Western Mississippi [ie. Mississippian-DD] complex. Nor from this same lack of transitional steps is it probable that the styles developed there and moved South. Yet to what epoch and to what culture in Central America, on the other hand, do these forms relate?

As an inexplicable residue among the ceramics of Guatemala, Honduras, Salvador and Costa Rica, occur such traits as composite silhouette, decoration by incision [Mississippian example below-DD], support of vessels by legs or cylinders, spouted vessels, pot stands and effigy forms. These elements obtain under such conditions of antiquity as beneath the volcanic ash of Salvador, under the Old Empire Maya remains at Homul and Uaxactun, and are associated with pre-Maya material at the Finca Arevalo in Guatemala. [the traits are also present down to Peru and absent over much of Mexico, Vaillant recounts]…Doctor Lothrop and this writer designated these elements as influence Q, since we know neither their center of distribution nor their makers. This complex occupies in Central America a position analogous to the relation between the primitive cultures in the Valley of Mexico and the Toltec and Aztec cultures.

In other words, we are not only talking Mayan ceramics, we are talking old, basic traditional Mayan ceramics. Something that the country people would remember when their elite rulers had been taken away, and pottery traits which would not have been transmitted by way of Northern Mexico primarily.

As I had mentioned before, the Mississippian houses were built according to the usual Mayan plan. To be frank, these are nothing like the wigwams common in the eastern United States, they are tropical huts.

The high steep-sided roofs are designed to shed heavy tropical rainfall and designs much like this are common in Northern South America and also in Indonesia (They are also used to indicate the possibility of TransPacific diffusion between those other two regions, along with use of the BLOWGUN, which the Mayas also had. The duplication of blowgun technology on both sides of the Pacific is something that is hard for non-diffusionists to explain)

And then of course the most obvious and characteristic feature of the Mississippian cultures is the creation and use of the stepped-pyramid temple mounds, built along parallel principles but using earth instead of stone as the construction material. And this came with a version of Mesoamerican pyramid ceremonialism, placement around a plaza,human sacrifice, headhunting and veneration of human skulls.

And besides building pyramids after a design similar to the Mayan pyramids at Chichen Itza, the people carried a name by which they seem to have called themselves, Itsas. a hundred years ago or more, this was not even questioned, it was taken for granted that these people had come from that part of the Yucatan and that is why they were using that name.

POSTSCRIPT

I had begun to develop a very long and involved followup to this article on linguistics, making very involved and complicated arguments, but then I saw how the situation could be represented most easily. In the Wikipedia entry discussing the validity or non-validity of the so-called Amerind linguistic superfamily, a long list of languages is included. I excerpt part of the listing here:

Penutian–Hokan

  1. Penutian
  2. Gulf
  3. Atakapa
  4. Chitimacha
  5. Muskogean
  6. Natchez
  7. Tunica
  8. Yukian
  9. Mexican Penutian
  10. Huave
  11. Mayan
  12. Mixe–Zoque
  13. Totonac

IN OTHER WORDS THE MAYAN AND GULF LINGUISTIC FAMILIES ARE ALREADY CONSIDERED ADJACENT AND RELATED LINGUISTIC GROUPS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerind_languages


Clay figurines discovered on the Mann Hopewell Site show faces with slanted eyes, which were not a Hopewell feature. Some believe the figurines show a connection between Indiana and Central or South America.

 

Olmec-like Hopewell figure-ens found at Mann Site in Indianna. Other long distance trade goods, like obsidian from Yellowstone and Grizzly Bear teeth from the Rockies were found.

“It’s like Vegas … for archaeologists,” says Mike Linderman, who manages state historic sites in western Indiana. Linderman says the Mann Hopewell Site is bigger than its more famous Hopewell counterparts in Ohio, and it’s filled with even more exotic materials, like obsidian glass that has been traced to the Yellowstone Valley in Wyoming, and grizzly bear incisor teeth.

“Grizzly bears obviously are not from Indiana, never have been,” Linderman says. “There’s a theory out there now that instead of being trade items, these items [were] actually being collected by the people from Mann Site on rite-of-passage trips they [were] taking out to the West. You know, it’s something big if you’ve killed a grizzly bear and you can bring its teeth back to Indiana.”

Jaguars and panthers aren’t from Indiana, either, but they show up at the Mann Hopewell Site as beautifully detailed carvings. Put them together with clay figurines that have slanted eyes — not a Hopewell feature — and Linderman says we could be looking at a connection between Indiana and Central or South America.

https://www.npr.org/2011/01/03/132412112/the-prehistoric-treasure-in-the-fields-of-indiana?ft=1&f=1008


Exotic artifacts found at Tamtoc on Mexico’s East Coast

Perhaps the best evidence of north south trade between Mesoamerica and the Eastern United States were a serious of articacts found in Tamtoc, Mexico.

From http://www.huasteca.tomgidwitz.com/html/tamtoc.html  (published in the magazine Archaeology dated to 2010)

 

The results may reveal links between Huasteca settlements and mound building cultures in the United States. For decades, archaeologists have theorized that North America’s Late Woodland and Mississippian cultures drew inspiration from the Huasteca, but Davila and Zaragoza’s excavations at Tamtoc in the 1990s convinced them that cultural influence, and perhaps actual migration, spread from north to south. They unearthed objects that seemed to come from the American Southeast in about A.D. 900—a fragment of a sheet of hammered copper, a pointed metal hand tool, a piece of engraved shell, a cache of a dozen whole and twenty fragmented Cahokia projectile points, and pottery that could have come from sites to the north such as Etowah, and Moundville. When they dug into a terrace beside the site’s western mound, they found that, like the mounds at Cahokia, it had been piled up layer-by-layer in basket-sized loads, with dirt from pits that became the lagoons around the site.

“We dug and dug and dug,” says Davila, “but I understood nothing.” Then he read Garcilaso de la Vega’s La Florida del Inca, an account of the 1539 Hernando de Soto expedition to the Southeast. It describes huge Indian trade and war canoes that plied the waters of the Gulf of Mexico and the rivers of the Southeast. “We think there was a migration by sea,” says Davila.

Scholars have long recognized that both the Southeast and Huasteca had towns with artificial lagoons and platform mounds with thatched structures on top, engraved shell jewelry, imagery of feathered dancers, stone pipes, and ghostly pots that represent the dead with closed eyes, open mouths, and filed teeth. They have theorized that the cultural influence flowed from Mesoamerica northward, but the Tamtoc artifacts, other mounds in the Huasteca, and the region’s incised shell gorgets, post-date their earliest North American counterparts.

University of South Florida archaeologist Nancy White says that major cultural influences, as well as people, may well have traveled north to south. “We know other things may have moved from North to South America, things that may be considered less important or equally important, like tobacco.” The Mississippian motifs of the Late Prehistoric period that appear in the Huasteca do indicate that “at this late time people were probably moving around and sharing these ideas, but just a few things.” In the field, Martínez and Córdova want to see for themselves.

Physical anthropologist Carlos Karam has taken bite molds of about thirty contemporary Teenek and is comparing the inherited contours of their molars and bicuspids to Tamtoc skeletons and to ancient and modern Maya. He’s checking the DNA of modern Teenek against that of ancient Tamtoc skeletons; strontium isotopes in Tamtoc teeth, absorbed in telltale amounts from drinking water, might reveal where the city’s dead grew up.

“This is a hypothesis we are testing, and we have not found enough information to confirm it, yet,” Córdova says. Martínez and Córdova think it will take ten years to complete their excavations. But just as important to them is making Tamtoc into an instructive oasis in this disrupted landscape. They plan to stock the restored lagoons with fish, reestablish the fruit trees that once thrived here, and demonstrate how ancient Tamtoc sustained itself. This year they will begin construction on a site museum and teaching center where local students will work side by side with archaeologists, study artifact restoration and conservation, and learn about indigenous people.

 


 it is certain that people in what is now the American Southwest had extensive contacts with Mexico that would have had to included contact with Aztec, and perhaps Mayan cultures. There are trade items that have been found in both locations. We know the many of the trails and routes that the trade took place over. We don’t know if single individuals traveled the whole distance or it went form middleman to middleman, but there was contact for a long time and thus they would have known about the civilizations to the south. All the trade was carried out by people walking and carrying the goods on their backs. There was no currency, mail, stores, set prices, or banks. All trade was face to face and always would have involved negotiation. With that, as in all places that trade in this way, comes information and stories. There was no way to buy anything anonymously. Information always travels on trade routes. A person or group of people arriving form a distant culture with valuable goods would be big news every time it happened.

As Ben said, Chocolate and turquoise are some of the best evidence. But that was not all. These areas in the SW were large trading centers that connected big part of the continent in a pansouthwest trade network. It stretched to the Pacific in southern California, to the Gulf of California, north to the mobile Plains people and the sedentary plains people like the Mandan and Pawnee, east to the Gulf of Mexico, and far south to Aztec lands. Some of the items traded were: domestic turkeys, corn (maize), squash and beans, copper bells, pottery, shells of many sorts, obsidian, parrots and feathers, cotton textiles, tallow, buffalo meat, malchite, pedernal chert, lead, sillimanite, leather goods, and much more were traded.

Shells from the Pacific have been found in Mississippian mound building culture sites. Some olivella shells and abalone found at the Caddoan Mississippian site at Spiro in eastern Oklahoma originated on the Pacific coast. These would have had to have been brought by trails from the Pacific to Zuni, to Taos and then to people that brought them to Spiro. Spiro was a major western outpost of Mississippian culture, which dominated the Mississippi Valley and its tributaries for centuries. Because they were in contact with people who knew about the Aztecs it is likely they know about them too.

Here is a diagram/map of routes that pacific shells were carried by people form one culture area to the next in the SW and Southern California. All these areas were in turn connected to Aztec areas to the south and to peoples on the Plains and Mississippian peoples.

The evidence of chocolate in vessels as far north in Pueblo cultures as Utah and Colorado shows it was regularly consumed. But it was not just the cocoa beans that were traded. The way to make them into a drink was also learned and the shapes of special pottery vessels to prepare that drink was brought from the south to the American SW. Culture, technology, and information moved north. With that information would have come knowledge of large cities to the south.

Because the closest place Chocolate can be grow is south of the Aztec capital and all trade went through there, it is all but certain they knew about the Aztecs. It is possible that they traded with people on the Pacific coast but those people were in close contact with the Aztec. Turquoise that can be chemically traced from the SW is found in Maya areas.

It is I think important to remember what kind of scale the Aztec civilization was. It is also important to remember that today’s borders are random and meaningless in a historical sense. Because people were trading with the Aztecs, it is to me simply ludicrous to imagine they did not know about the Aztecs. It was definitely something people would talk about.

The main center of the Aztec empire, that controlled both the empire and managed tributary states, was a city on an island with causeways on a lake. The main market had about 20,000 people in it on regular days and 40,000 of festivals. Cortez estimated 60,000. There were 45 major public buildings. Some of the temples were 200 feet high and 262 by 328 feet at the base. The palace had 100 rooms. The most common estimate is that 212,500 people were living there on 5.2 sq mi. The Empire was multi-ethnic, multi-lingual realm stretched for more than 80,000 square miles through many parts of what is now central and southern Mexico. At least 15 million people lived in it. They lived in thirty-eight provinces.

Now think about any random human’s behavior. If you lived 1,500 miles north of Mexica and traders came every year from that huge city for hundreds of years and you sent things back there, how would it be possible not to know about it? Some people would also go south on the trails just out of normal human curiosity. There were not armed or walled borders.

Another big connection between the SW and at least as far south as the Aztecs are the ritual ball courts. They are found as far north as the Wupatki area outside of Flagstaff. It was started there in 1100CE abandoned at Wupatki in 1250 CE. It is 1,600 miles to Mexico city today. And even further on the trails that would have been used. They might have got the concept from the Hohokam, but some person or groups of people had to either seen the courts in Aztec areas or moved from those areas. It could not have come just as a word of mouth story, it is too complex and too similar. At that location, shells, salt, and cotton, copper and turquoise were traded. All those items were coming from or going to, far to the south and to the west.

The earliest Hohokam culture appears in the southwest around 300CE. About 600 CE the archaeological data shows the contact between the Hohokam and the civilizations of Mexico intensified. The southern most Hohokam style courts are in the Santa Cruz river in northern Mexico which flows north to the Tucson area. This marks the beginning of what archaeologists call the Colonial Period. Imports from the civilizations in Mexico at this time include lost wax cast copper bells, macaws (which are valued for their feathers). Pyrite mirrors from Mesoamerica, traded to the Hohokam have mesoamerican art on them. The pyrite mirrors were made from a round disk of schist on which were glued thin sheets of pyrite (a reflective metallic mineral often called fool’s gold), were traded from the Valley of Mexico. Hohokam also used other Mesoamerican food plants such as agave and amaranth as well as corn, beans and squash.

Hohokam communities built ball courts between 700 and 1100 C.E. In the Phoenix Basin, the Hohokam had some 70,000 acres under cultivation with their elaborate networks of irrigation canals. About 80,000 people lived in the Hohokam culture area. Some of the ball courts were 250 feet (76 meters) in length and 90 feet (27 meters) in width. In some instances they were dug up to 9 feet (nearly 3 meters) into the subsoil. There are at least 220 ballcourts at 181 sites across Arizona. There were probably more that were have not found and were built over.

All the rubber balls used there needed to be traded and carried on someone’s back from south in Mexico. Whether a Hohokam person did the trip or an Aztec trading caste member the people using the balls would have know they came from a far away culture to the south. It is thought that rubber balls, a cacao, and feathers, and seeds and other things came north in exchange for turquoises and obsidian and for cotton textiles. This was a regular trade, so over the centuries people in the American SW would end up with considerable knowledge of Aztec places even if they personally never went there.

Archaeologists have found rubber balls similar to those used in Mesoamerica at sites in the Southwest. The rubber had to have come from southern Mexico. It does not grow further north. The balls were made by mixing the Panama rubber tree latex with a sap from a morning glory species. This adds sulfur to vulcanize it. It is only found as far north as southern Mexico. The balls for most of the versions of the game were 3–4 inches in diameter. But there was also a version with a bigger ball hit with the hip (8 inches).

I don’t think anyone knows if items went person to person and tribal territory to territory or if some class of people did the whole length of the routes. There were many many routes and contacts over great distance however. And the current barrier of the Mexico border was not a cultural or political line. It is hard for people to think about sometimes but it only exists from 1848 onward. There was no reason to stop at that line in the past.

Pueblo people in historic times did round trips from Zuni to the Gulf of California. That is well over 600 miles to the southwest over difficult terrain. They also had routes to the Pacific, but I think those were not done by Zuni themselves but by middlemen.

There also is the well known existence of the Aztec professional long distance trader class called Pochteca (the singular is pochtecatl). To some, the people they used to carry the goods seem a lot like the images of Kokopelli that are found throughout the SW. They were high status in the Aztec world and traveled beyond the empire. They carried information and spied too. They probably are the way corn and other crops moved north into the SW. Their patron god also has a pack. These traders were certainly the ones that came north for turquoise. They don’t seem to have just used middlemen. A special subclass the Pochteca Naualoztomeca, the ‘disguised merchants’, did long distance trade seeking after rare goods. Long distance trade began long before the Aztecs from Mesoamerica in the Formative period (2500–900BCE). There was a complex system of trading centers and laws and judges that controlled the trade. The market in the north of Mexico city, called Azcapotzalco, was the one that was a trading hub and controlled all major markets and trade routes.

Long distance traders in Maya communities were called Ppolom. The Olmec had a similar caste too. The Yucatec Maya traded along the coast with large canoes with other Maya groups as well as with Caribbean communities who in turn traded to the American SE. The Ppolom were long-distance traders who usually came from noble families and leaded trading expeditions to acquire valuable raw materials. Their seagoing trade routes went from the Gulf of Honduras to Veracruz Mexico. There are also indications of contact, most likely by coastal boats, between Mesoamerican cultures and ones on the American SE Gulf coast. It is not really far by water. The boats that were described by Columbus’s brother had 25 paddlers and also passengers and piles of goods. They were 2.5 meters wide and had a small thatched shelter in the middle. It was after capturing one that they first saw cacao which was a currency in their trade. They would have mostly likely traded with the Aztecs in the Veracruz area which was a mixing place between the tow cultures. The Aztec trading class then took the cacao to the American SW as far north as Colorado and Utah in the Four Corners region.

This is the god of the Aztec trading class and below is a trader.

There is some other evidence on long distance travel. When Cabeza de Vaca finally made his way from Galveston TX through the southwest and then south to finally be able to find the Spanish a bit north of Culiacan, Mexico (Nov 1528-Jan 1536), it is certain that he was traveling on established trading routes. And when he went with the Spanish back to Mexico City from Jan to June they were traveling on established trails as well. They had not built roads and they did not go aimlessly overland.

People did go and know about things at great distances. When Euro-Americans first encountered northern Plains peoples they had high status blankets from Navajo and Pueblo weavers. They would have traded for them in Taos or Zuni. That was over 700 miles to the NE.

The Navajo stories migration of some of the clans have a pretty clear account of traveling from the Pacific near Santa Barbara all the way to near Farmington NM area. You could follow the path today. It is over 900 miles. Whether the clans really moved that way or not, it is clear that some people had traveled that distance.

 

Multi-dimensionality and the relativity of fundamental units in physics

NOTE: This article is out of date.  See the more recent version found here.

Introduction

Although my degree is in geology & geophysics, and not nuclear or astrophysics, I’v always had a keen interest in physics and would love to go back to school one day and get a graduate degree somewhere in that field. My advanced physics, geochronology and geophysics classes in college really interested and excited me. As I went through school I was flooded with ideas and insights and had strong impressions of where modern physical understandings were lacking.

As the internet grows I have found I am far from alone. I have tried on many occasions to write down my ideas, but as I comb the internet for information I am overwhelmed by how many people there are who are thinking about and trying to solve these same issues. Because there are so many others, I am quite sure these issues will work themselves out over time. I think collaborative, academic bodies will eventually move our global understanding where it needs to be in order to fully understand the concepts my theories are working toward. In relation to my very unique theory for scriptural correlation & symbolism (not young-earth creationism!) and the relativity of radiometric dating and its consequences on earth’s True Polar Wander and the Ice Age (see my article here), I will go over some of the basic principles of what I think mainstream science will one day mathematically prove.

Outline

1. There are many poorly understood cycles in celestial mechanics, some of which affect many of the fundamental units of physics.

(give examples)
-what really is mass? how does it relate to time?
-what dictates nuclear stability and decay rates?

2. One of the most basic of these is the sun’s 11 yr solar cycle of solar maximum. This poorly understood cycle, which is almost certainly caused by a type of electrical resonance between the sun and Jupiter (and Saturn), reverses the sun’s electromagnetic field and causes massive electrical discharges and changes within the sun’s dynamo.

(give examples)
-sun and Jupiter are a binary pair, Jupiter’s period is ~11 years.
-they create a double circle resonance. when closest, their lines intertwine. Saturn & Jupiters 11 year orbit somehow drive the ~11 year solar cycle.
-also…

3. Many of the celestial mechanic principles which govern the orbits of bodies are still sometimes explained using archaic concepts of Newtonian mechanics. Understanding phenomena such as inertia, circular orbits, and mass/gravity in terms of quantum field mechanics helps to better explain the relativity and connectedness of our galaxy.

(give examples)
-the similarity between charge and gravity equations (force related to distance squared).
-The circular orbital behavior of a charged particle in a mag field.
-The standing wave and orbit of the earth.
-diagram of how the earth would create a mag field if it is a charged particle in a large oscillating mag field of the sun.
-channeled sources teach of 8 dimensions, a fractal analog is the 8 energy shells in atoms. this is where energy goes.
-speed of light (core atomic resonance of that frequency) dictates the dimension. it is dictated by the mag field of the next higher governing creation.
-throw in the concept of the sun or all matter being a vortex into the next dimension (like a drain sucking in matter & blowing out energy)

4.The galactic core, and many other systems within the universe also produce harmonics and orbital resonances (especially with gravity waves), which create cycles affecting our solar system and all bodies within the universe. The density waves which create our spiral arm geometry is an example. The most pertinent cycle for our solar system is a 600-800 yr & 3000-4200 year cycle which radically affects our sun and solar system.

(give examples)
-we only have mythological historical and channeled accounts to tell us about these theorized cycles.
-It appears to completely disrupt the solar system.
-causes a huge energetic exchange between the sun and its governing power (perhaps the galactic core?).
-The energetic exchanges change the z-number and nuclear stability; which changes most of the relative fundamentals such as mass, density and binding energy.
-Changes occurring during these cycles create changes in volume/density & angular velocity and momentum and are the primary driving force for plate tectonics.

5. Just like suns, every atom is a miniature vortex/whirlpool connecting dimensions. Just as differing densities in the ocean or atmosphere cause vortexes seeking equilibrium (tornadoes/whirlpools), so also are suns and subatomic particles 3D vortices which pull matter from one density/dimension, transform it and blow it into another density/dimension in the form of energy (matter goes in gravitationally and out electromagnetically). Somewhat like a slinky going down the stairs, all matter steps through the dimensions; each sun, planet and atom attracting to itself in one dimension until it dies and is re-created or born again in the next higher dimension. Everything has its analog across the dimensions. As galaxies and humans attract in this life, so we will manifest in the next.

6. The unified field is the master electromagnetic (quantum) field. Particles are simply well behaved ripples or vortices in the quantum field. The Strong, Weak, Gravitational and Magnetic attractive/repulsive forces are all different aspects of the same force–which have to do with alignment or misalignment of the vortices. What needs to be solved is the mechanism which shields some interactions and not others. What shields some elements from being magnetic? What shields the Strong Force in all but nucleic interactions? What shields the “magnetic” forces in celestial mechanics to make interactions behave “gravitationally”?  Etc…  To solve the shielding problem is to unify the forces. My guess is that the math behind this is beyond our current abilities. I believe it has to do with calculating the composite field interactions between every subatomic vortex in the field.

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Background Concepts

Relativity of Radiometric decay rates (likely caused by neutrino spikes)
Gravitational Waves which warp space-time and emanate out from super massive objects like Sagittarius A in the center of our galaxy.
-The galactic current/plasma sheet (Galactic analog to the Heliospheric Sheet)
Cosmic (astrophysical) Jets, and cyclical gamma ray bursts
-Solar outbursts in systems with brown dwarfs far more powerful than usual. Especially if magnetic lines reconnect (find article of this happening recently elsewhere)
Superflares (massive CME’s thousands of times more powerful than nuclear weapons’, capable of affecting C14 production in the upper atmosphere – see 774 AD event)

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The cycles of celestial mechanics and their relationship to the fundamental units of physics

In our Galaxy there are many cycles which affect our earth and our measurements of space and time. The most fundamental of these cycles is obviously the earth day, which is essentially a measure one complete rotation of earth on its axis. Also well known are the year, the lunar cycle which months are loosely based on, and the less known Solar Cycle of 11 years where the sun reverses polarity. There are even greater cycles of such long duration that their exact mechanical characteristics are only speculative; such as our solar system’s movement within the Orion arm of the galaxy, our movement up and down across the galactic plane or equator, and our solar system’s orbit around the galactic core. I propose that these larger celestial cycles dictate all of our physical laws and measurements in ways many may not realize. It should be obvious that all our measurements of time are based on the velocity of the earth’s rotation and orbit around the sun, as well as the distance and size of the earth itself and its orbit. Einstein and many physicists like him came to realize over a century ago that all these measurements were relative to each-other and were dependent upon one’s reference frame in many complicated ways.

I suggest that there is no way to conclusively prove that the earth’s rotational velocity, orbital velocity or orbital period have been constant; and that in fact historical and mythological records seem to suggest to the contrary. I propose a cosmological model which suggests that our Solar System experiences long periods of relative stability interspersed by short bursts of extreme relativistic changes much like the suns 9-10 years of stable behavior interspersed by 1-2 years of erratic behavior during Solar Max. I suggest that special relativity and gravity waves can be used to suggest that large changes in the angular velocity of our solar system’s orbit in the galaxy, cause minor but significant changes in volume, density and even its mass, binding energy and other energetic properties of physics.

Two dimensional representation of the rate of change of Celestial Cycles. Peaks and troughs represent huge gravity waves emanating out from the Galactic Core, which cause short periods of intense change in spacetime, mass, angular velocity, and angular momentum. Areas of constant slope between peaks and trough represent areas of relative stability.

The Solar Cycle and Orbital Resonance

Our sun’s 11 year solar cycle has been well researched and documented. Roughly every 11 years the sun’s magnetic field collapses, reverses and realigns in a process corresponding with Solar Maximum, where the sun’s energetic output, sunspot activity and coronal mass ejection prevalence intensifies. Older models seeking to explain the cause of these cycles relied on classical physics explanations which saw the sun as a closed dynamo system. Newer models are beginning to explore how electro-magnetic and gravitational fields might actually be at play in these phenomena. Although well documented, it is not well known that the Sun and Jupiter are technically a binary system, as the center of gravity of the two bodies lies outside the sun’s circumference. At roughly 1/10th the diameter of the sun, Jupiter is more than twice as massive than all the other planets combined. The slight acceleration of mass created by this binary orbit between the Jupiter, the Sun & Saturn, I believe, creates some type of harmonic or orbital resonance which creates tidal forces within the sun and also affects the electrical resonance of the two bodies and the entire solar system.

Exaggerated illustration of the binary nature of the Sun and Jupiter. Thier true center of gravity lies just outside the circumference of the Sun. This relationship creates an orbital resonance which in turn interacts with the galactic field

Highly Exaggerated illustration of the binary nature of the Sun and Jupiter’s orbits. Thier true center of gravity lies just outside the circumference of the Sun. This relationship creates an electric resonance which in turn interacts with the galactic field.

As depicted in the exaggerated illustration above, when these two massive bodies reach perihelion (their closest approach), their angular momentum increases slightly — this acceleration of mass and charge, undoubtedly induces a charge likely propagated into the heliosphere current sheet. (As a result of gravitational and electromagnetic principles I detail below, I suggest that Solar Max is caused primarily by changes in the Sun’s rotational acceleration and not by random inner-body tidal forces caused by heat differentials).  The Solar Jovian exchange energizes and imbalances the sun’s internal dynamo and it drops its protective shield leaving it temporarily exposed to the cosmic influences of the galactic wind. It is not entirely understood why the sun’s electromagnetic field always rebuilds in a switched polarity, but I suspect that either Jupiter’s orbital obliquity to the Solar Plane (which is 6.01 degrees) actually alternately snakes above and below the celestial equator with each orbit, or it is caused by some galactic influence such as our solar system’s position in the galactic field according to principles which will be discussed later in this article.

The Oahspe text contains many supposed ancient illustrations (channeled in 1882) of astronomic regions though which the earth passed in its galactic orbit which preportedly afftected human behavior and consiousness, the pattern in this illustration is surprisingly similar the reinforced wave patters of torroidal energy flow.

Ancient documents speak of the travel of our solar system across a “celestial serpent” or sinusoidal path across the galaxy which crossed through regions of “light and dark”–which in turn affected the spiritual proclivities of mankind (aka celestial “times and seasons”).

The small Gravity Waves caused by the sun’s acceleration and the electrical resonance created by the same process is extremely relevant in our discussion because I believe it serves as a microcosm or fractal of what is occurring in the Galactic Core.  The dance or movement of these two lovers creates an alternating, radiating field disturbance which radiates throughout the Solar System (and Galaxy) and ends up affecting the gravitational and electrical properties of all smaller bodies. It is this same phenomena occurring in our Galactic core which is responsible for the “arms” of our Galaxy, and more importantly, creating alternating regions of “light” (high energy density) and “dark” (low energy density), which regulate the relativistic changes of cosmic variables for our solar system (such as inertia, mass and the speed of light). Much like with the famous double slit experiment, this double wave interference pattern creates linear node alignments which radiate out from the center like sunbursts or spokes on a wheel. When the oscillating source of these interference waves is itself rotating, then the spokes become curved arms matching the ratio phi—just like we see in our galaxy. (see cosmometry.net for many amazing insights into the relationships of phi)

As our solar system slowly moves through the pattern of electromagnetic waves and gravity waves emanated out from the galactic core, many fundamentals of physics change. Large gravity waves fold space-time on itself, causing possible time-dilation, and changes in mass and solar energy output.

Double wave interference pattern from two oscillating bodies

Imagine these oscillating balls representing the Sun and Jupiter (or similarly the Galactic Core & Sagittarius A East). Note the double interference pattern (especially the wave canceling “rays” or spokes radiating from the center). Now picture the entire system rotating and you would get the same condition existing in the Galactic core—it being responsible for the spiral arms of our Galaxy. Matter tends to be driven into the “quiet” or wave-cancelling arms.

Illustration showing how the double interference pattern of the Milky Way is created.

Celestial Mechanics and a Unified Field Theory

Science seems to be marching on in finding ways to explain the unified field that Einstein envisioned. There are many patterns and concepts concerning a possible unified field which any high school student can see, and in fact most college textbooks actually point out. Modern String theory is starting to validate previously pseudoscience “new age” theories that require multiple dimensions to make things work. Here, we’ll first cover the similarities in equations which govern classical vs. quantum mechanics.  For an over simplified example, take for instance the similarities between law of universal gravitation and Coulomb’s law. 

gravitation vs.

Universal Gravitation vs. Coulomb’s Law

It should be obvious that there seems to be a distinct relationship between mass and charge.  This relationship becomes more clear and insightful when we look closely at mass and compare it to the effects of a charge in different types of magnetic fields. Mass, by definition is simply a measure of the force it takes to break inertia and accelerate an object. But what causes the effects of inertia?  This force is often seen as separate from electromagnetism, but remember the Lorentz force laws show that it takes a force to move charged particles against a magnetic field. To those who have looked closely into magnetic field vectors on a spherical object, the results are amazingly similar to the inertial effects we see on objects in our Solar System. Although strikingly similar on the surface, mathematically proving this idea that inertia is actually caused by the resistance of magnetic fields on relatively “charged” objects has proven elusive (but that doesn’t mean it won’t be done one day).  Before moving into the more complex differences between gravity and magnetism let’s take a moment to look at the similar effects of planetary orbits and the behavior of a charged particle moving normal to a magnetic field.  In introductory physics we learn of the cyclotron and the effects of a charged particle when traveling normal to a uniform magnetic field. As shown in the illustrations below, the particle will be forced into a circular orbit when the velocity is inversely proportional to the charge.  Doesn’t this look amazingly similar to planetary orbits?  Isn’t this a better explanation for why planets tend to stabilize their orbits around the celestial equator and galactic bodies tend to do the same along the galactic equatorial plane?  It likely also plays a role in why planets with weak or no magnetic fields often have very small or no moons.

Questions:
-Electromagnetic properties only act on oppositely charged objects. Is there any way to test whether the sun and its planets are relatively opposingly charged?

The circular behavior of charged particles in a uniform perpendicular magnetic field, is similar to the behavior of celestial bodies orbiting bodies with strong magnetic fields.

similarities between the circular or ‘cyclotronic” motion of a charged particle moving normal to a uniform magnetic field, and the stable orbit of a planet or satellite orbiting within the uniform magnetic field of its governing celestial body.

Some cosmological phenomena are sometimes still explained using entirely newtonian physics principles, despite their amazing similarities to electromagnetic principles.  There are many physicists trying to break out of this old mechanical cosmological view and trying to see the universe as a dynamic electrical system.  One profound aspect of this is the idea that Celestial bodies may be heated from within by induction caused by motion through the solar or galactic magnetic field, just as a conductor induces a current when it moves through an alternating field. If such were at all true there could be many implications on possible periodicities of volcanism and the speed of tectonic movement (orogenic events) seen in the geologic record. Perhaps as many ancient myths suggest, the movement of our Solar System in and out of high density “nodes” of the Galactic Field could possibly influence planetary heating, plate subduction and Solar output.

Our current difficulty in getting past the prevailing classical astronomical models is reminiscent of the 17th century scientific community led by Lord Kelvin who had trouble accepting the idea of radioactivity playing a role in the Sun’s and earth’s interior heating.

A changing magnetic field through a conducting ring induces a current. Accordingly, the sun’s & galaxy’s changing magnetic field induces a current in the earth, initially controlling its internal dynamo and its seemingly random switches in polarity.

Putting it all together

Putting the principles we have been discussing together I propose a model in which, just as a wound conductor wire acquires an induced current when moved through an oscillating magnetic field, the Sun also is subtely influenced electrically by its motion through the galactic magnetic field. Changes in the Sun’s acceleration, like those caused by Jupiter’s binary perigee every 11 years, cause electrically induced surges which we call solar max.  The same process is repeated up and down the line between Suns, planets and other orbiting satellites which have cores appropriate for forming dynamic magnetic fields. Thus the earth’s core also has a current which is induced by its travel through the sun’s oscillating magnetic field. (However, hardened planets like earth contain largely “frozen” magnetic fields which are no longer able to flow easily with the changes of their “governing” stars.) Energetic changes in earth’s internal dynamo are also caused by accelerations caused by our own satellite (The earth and moon are also a binary system). This process forms a chain which transfers energy and other aspects of electrical resonance from the smallest of celestial bodies, to the galactic core itself. Of course, like most things in nature there are obviously myriads of exceptions and complexities which seem to break the rules of every model. A scientists job is not to lay on the wisdom as if they have “figured nature out”, but to propose theories and hypotheses which explain natural phenomena and invite others to test and challenge those theories in search of truth….

Electromagnetic dynamics within the Solar System and Galaxy.

Oversimplified principles of electromagnetic dynamics within the Solar System and Galaxy.

Questions:
-If true would the motion of the sun through the galactic magnetic field, or the motion of the planets through the suns magnetic field create a drag? Wouldn’t this tend to slow them down over time?

Atomic Orbital Shells Are Analogs to the Dimensions

I believe the 7 electron energy shells or valence shells appear to be a fractal analog or microcosm to 7 dimensions/densities of our Galaxy (its likely the “number” of dimensions is relative–every string theory model seems to put forward a different number).  There can be a maximum of 7 energy shells just as there are 7 energy densities or dimensions of our Milky Way Galaxy. Just as different atoms have different numbers of energy shells, so do different planets and suns have different numbers of densities. (refs)  For instance, earth has a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and is just now activating a 4rth dimension just as Potassium or Calcium are in the early stages of filling a 4th energy shell.  Saturn is a late 7th dimensional planet much like elements 99-100 have nearly full 7th electron orbitals.

periodic table of the elements showing the electron shells of each element.

periodic table of the elements showing the electron shells of each element.

We like to think of electrons as ‘particles’ orbiting ‘around’ the nucleus, but in reality electron shells are more like an energy field which holds a discrete amount of energy. The number of shells and amount of energy those shells can hold is determined by the “core vibration” or mass of the nucleus.  Likewise the varying dimensions of planets (such as earth’s heavens) or even the 7 energy bodies in hindu belief are often referred to as existing ‘around’ a person or planet, but in reality pinpointing these shells in space is not so straightforward.  In the ‘Law of One’, Saturn’s 7th dimension is referred to as existing in the “rings’ of Saturn, just as Oahspe and most mainstream religions refer to earth’s heavens or resurrections as existing within the earth’s electromagnetic field. This is true in a manner of speaking because space/mass expands as it becomes more energized, but one needs to realize that these places are truly alternate dimensions invisible to human eye and manifesting only as light or energy when translating from one reference frame to another.

-put diagrams of gravity vs electromagnetic interactions.
-lay out relationships between fundamental physical properties (mass, energy, etc)
-lay out a framework for how core vibrations change, and how this change then dictates the fundamental laws.

—- UNDER CONSTRUCTION —————————————————————————————–

Summary

Most of the fundamental units of physics are relative to many cosmological factors which change over time. The earth’s volume, density, and most importantly the speed of light, … are relative to the solar system’s position in the galaxy. Assumptions claiming these do not changed are flawed…

We are just beginning to understand the electrical nature of the universe. The relationship between electromagnetism and gravity is in its infancy. Most physics textbooks point out these relationships as examples of what is yet to be discovered… when we find these relationships, we will understand why decay rates change over time.

Small description of the 8 dimensions from cosmology article. As earth moves between these, dates skew.

(give examples)
-the similarity between force and gravity equations (over distance squared).
-The circular orbital behavior of a charged particle in a mag field.
-The standing wave and orbit of the earth.
-diagram of how the earth would create a mag field if it is a charged particle in a large oscillating mag field of the sun.
-the lost energy we call binding energy, is pulled to the next dimension
-(main point) most importantly hit on the possible causes for creation of, and polarity switches in magnetic fields. because switches (which have collapses) or changes in mag field intensity, affect radiation on earth, which affects decay rates.

-gravity and electromagnetic attraction are obviously the same force, but the force is dampened or accentuated by the configuration of the atoms in the material. In materials which conduct electricity, the force gravitational force is greater… that’s why they are heavy. It has to do with how the atoms are arranged…
different theories for what changes the decay rates…
1.standing wave nodes
2.abrupt change in velocity
3.(main point) direct CME impacts and general changes in solar and interstellar radiation reaching the earth. Current physics is still a bit too caught up in particle physics, but we understand radiation enough to realize that interstellar radiation both creates and affects radioactive particles. Creation of C14 by highly charged solar particles is well understood. Creation of other radioactive isotopes like U245 and K37 from cosmic sources is less understood, but the principles are still there.

4 -PLATE TECTONICS. as you move further away from a gravitationally governing body, an object’s volume and density change.  A bag of potato chips of a mountain or a balloon in the air will expand the higher they raise away from the earth. The planets experience the same effect in relation to the sun’s gravitational influences. As a you move away from the Sun, planets become more voluminous and less dense (depending on the rigidity of their materials).  Scientist currently assume that the differences in planetary density were determined as they all simultaneously condensed with our sun (which may certainly be true) and that the earth has not changed its location in the solar system. My theory however suggests that it is changes in interstellar density, which is the main driver of plate tectonics. The liquid core expands & shrinks as we cross major galactic density boundaries, the rigid crust, less so. The same would be true of our sun (and its planets) as we move about in relation to both the galactic core and other galactic gravitational influences (they move slightly closer or further from the sun).

This process is quantized, not simply gradational. It could best be compared to the water cycle. Water does not transform from ice to liquid to steam in a linear fashion, it does so in quantized steps involving latent heat. With water, changes of state are determined by the energy density of the liquid or the density/pressure of the environment. If you slowly move most frozen substances into a region of lower pressure, they will liquify unless you take enough energy out of the system to bring equilibrium. As our Solar System moves through the galaxy, the same type of thing happens as we pass through nebula (and clouds of dark matter) of differing density. Scientist know that the orbit of earth & all the planets in our solar system (as well as the moon) are slowly expanding, but no one can agree on why. What is yet to be seen is the effect of this change on the laws of physics once the quantized threshold boundary is crossed…

5-UNIFIED FIELD THEORY. gravity and magnetism are not separate forces, but different intensities of the same force. as scores of people have suggested, there is only one force, and it is subatomically created by reinforcing or cancelling waves. (Essentially vibrations or vortices in the quantum field.) Waves which are essentially electric field lines caused by space-time vortices in the unified field. Whats important is the idea that attractive and repulsive forces of electromagnetism act on every object. It is well understood that it is the “alignment” of the atoms which dictates magnetism. What is not well understood is that it is those same atomic alignment characteristics which determine mass… which in turn determines what we call gravity.  Magnetic materials are almost universally heavy (more massive). Why? Because the alignment or polarization of the atoms also makes them more attracted to the earth than other materials (in addition to being attracted to other magnetic materials). Iron, water or air do not have different masses because they have more or less atoms, it is because of the alignment or polarization of the atoms. Density is not so much a measure of the molarity (number of atoms) but the proportion of atoms aligned in certain configurations or ways.  The reason solids can pass through liquids or gases is the same reason why dimensions don’t interact, its because of the configuration and/or base vibratory frequency of the atoms.  At the most fundamental level, there is no such thing as a solid or “particle”.  Things simply behave like particles because of their electrical properties

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-when the moon had a liquid core and stronger magnetic field, it likely caused the earth’s magnetic field to regularly flip in the same way Jupiter causes the sun to.  Possibly certain galactic variables re-melt the core and polarize it from time to time.  Or like dropping a magnetic can affect its magnetism, jolts to the earth may affects its magnetism as well.

#1 Unified field theory. I believe we one day will come to mathematically and conceptually understand how all fundamental forces (gravitational, electromagnetic, strong, & weak force) are simply different distortions of the same unified force & field. I believe the key to finding these formulas is in understanding the multidimensionality of matter. (7 dimensions in our galaxy, just like there are 7 possible electron valence shells or energy levels in an atom.)

#2 Total relativity. All fundamental units of physics are relative and change as a body progresses through these dimensions. Mass, inertia, bonding energies/strong forces, gravitational forces, electromagnetic forces and time all are relative and change as a reference frame moves through the dimensions. Changes occur proportionally according to the mathematical relationships proven by mainstream physics. My ideas essentially mirror special relativity with exception that the speed of light is discretely different in each of the 7 dimensions.

UNDER CONSTRUCTION ——————————————————————————————————-

Changes In Fundamental Rules of Physics

I’ve come to realize our current understanding of the motion of our Solar System through the galaxy is fairly retarded. We really have only 200-600 years of good astronomical data to use as a basis for tracking our motion.  That’s not very much and not nearly enough to really be able to say much about our galactic orbit. All of our astronomical calculations concerning the suns movements are blind projections of current movements. We know from current measurable motions of stars that our planet wobbles on its axis. We know it also has a slight binary orbit because of the moon.  We know the sun does the same and has a true binary orbit with Jupiter (the center of which exists outside the circumference of the sun). We know our solar system is inclined relative to the galactic plane while moving toward it and we speculate it snakes its way up and down through that plane over time.  Despite presumptuous and prideful speculation, we really don’t have enough data to speculate as to exactly how that orbit behaves over thousands of years.  Vague Greek records (and possibly a few Chinese & Babylonian ones) are our only truly reliable way of extending astronomical conditions a bit longer into the past. The language barrier with Babylonian and Egyptian records makes them hopelessly suspect.  What is causing the earth’s magnetic field strength (and other planets in our solar system) to decay more rapidly than linear predictions suggested? It must have to do with the galactic orbit.

How reliable is projecting current motions millions of years into the past or present? I suggest that although equally as suspect, using material supposedly channeled from other dimensions where longer astronomical records exist is really all we have to work with.  From these, I speculate that as our solar system orbits the galactic core the earth moves through differing energy densities in the galactic wind.  I suspect it is a combination between our location in the galaxy and the angle between our suns trajectory in relation to the prevailing galactic field that dictates the speed of light and atomic energy potential in our solar system.

Variables affecting our planet and their relationships.

earth’s axial tilt = season/surface heat, electromagnetic interaction, harvest productivity
earth’s speed = time of day, length of year,
earth’s distance from sun = seems to be somehow loosely related to density/mass/size of the planet.

Variables affecting our solar system and their relationships.

solar system’s axial tilt = heat/intensity of the sun, electromagnetic interaction, spiritual harvest productivity
solar system’s speed = time in some way?
solar distance from galactic core = doesn’t matter so much, what matters is our relationship to the interference patterns.

The speed of Light dictates the dimension

I put a lot of meditation into this.. I need to find a way to explain it.  basically matter’s core vibration is what dictates a dimension and that is based on the speed of light. The speed of light is different for each dimension.  Each reality or illusion is formed by being able to interact with (see and touch) matter.  Both seeing and touching matter has to do with electromagnetic waves bouncing off things and repulsive interactions between atoms.  “Atoms” are mostly empty space, but the “solidity” of energy patterns that we call atoms or matter is dictated by them both having an equal core vibration.  So atoms or the matter in each dimension, vibrate at the same frequency which is the speed of light.

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I reference the Law of One because it is seems to verbalize many of the ideas that I have felt since delving into physics. As a second witness to my thoughts, it gives more validity to the hope that my ideas are not solely my own. It seems to me that there are a lot of people working on these concepts and that a scientific consensus will eventually be achieved which will iron out all the errors and inconsistencies in my own and other pioneering theories.

I believe that the correct model for multi-dimensionality in the universe must take into account the accumulating metaphysical evidence for life after death, and the existence of beings which dwell in dimensions not visible to our own. I believe along with many major religions and supposed material channeled from unseen realms that the earth is approaching a dimension boundary. And as we slowly cross this boundary, the changes we see in the fundamentals of physics will help our understanding of the physics of our galaxy to greatly enlarge.

#1 There is a dualistic dimension or metaphysical realm.
There is a metaphysical realm, dream state, spirit world, purgatory, time/space, mental environment or inner planes which is a duality or opposite in many ways to the physical world. (Separate from the resurrected realms, atmospherea/4rth density, etc. It is essentially the 8th density, next octave or dwelling place of God/ Higher Self. “The conditions are such that time becomes infinite and mass ceases”.) Time as we know it does not exist there. Where in our dimension space is large and curved compared to ourselves (the earth is spherical), there time is large and curved. Here, if you travel around our sphere/globe you will return to the space where you started; there if you travel around that sphere you will return to the time where you started. Here we move through space at will, but cannot control movement through time; there you can travel through time at will, but cannot control movement through space.

#2 There are 7 primary dimensions or densities in our galaxy which religion and metaphysics call the resurrected realms/heavens or glories and are a projection of the metaphysical realm. The reality or illusion of these realms is created by differing discrete values for the speed of light. The seven energy levels or valence shells of an atom are a fractal or microcosm of this greater reality.
Energy vibratory rates are quantized into discrete octaves of existence. In our octave, energy vibratory rates are quantized into 7 discrete steps of the continuum. Much like light being shown through a prism creating the 7 colors of the rainbow, energy originates in an octave above our own and is projected through the metaphysical realm to create the 7 densities or realms of existence. The speed of light is constant for our 3rd dimension or density, but is different in each of the other dimensions.

#3 The same principles Einstein’s relativity theories suggest apply to objects as they approach the speed of light also apply to a “stationary” object’s core vibratory rate. Generally when an object absorbs energy, it eventually burns up or disintegrates. On a molecular scale, the energy causes the atomic bonds to break down, the energy transforms into kinetic energy and the particles become excited releasing light (electromagnetic field energy) and gases which rise in the air to join other particles of like energy and density.
We suggest the strong force or bonding energy is created by a harmonic standing wave which emanates from the protons of the nucleus. This standing wave is the “core vibration” of the atom (see http://quantumwavetheory.wordpress.com/)

Questioner: Were these constructed in time/space or space/time?
Ra: I am Ra. We ask your persistent patience, for our answer must be complex.

A construct of thought was formed in time/space. This portion of time/space is that which approaches the speed of light. In time/space, at this approach, the conditions are such that time becomes infinite and mass ceases so that one which is able to skim the, boundary strength of this time/space is able to become placed where it will.

When we were where we wished to be we then clothed the construct of light with that which would appear as the crystal bell. This was formed through the boundary into space/time. Thus there were two constructs, the time/space or immaterial construct, and the space/time or materialized construct.
Ra: I am Ra. Although this query is difficult to answer adequately due to the limitations of your space/time sound vibration complexes, we shall respond to the best of our ability.

The hallmark of time/space is the inequity between time and space. In your space/time the spatial orientation of material causes a tangible framework for illusion. In time/space the inequity is upon the shoulders of that property known to you as time. This property renders entities and experiences intangible in a relative sense. In your framework each particle or core vibration moves at a velocity which approaches what you call the speed of light from the direction of superluminal [faster than the speed of light] velocities.

Thus the time/space or metaphysical experience is that which is very finely tuned and, although an analog of space/time, lacking in its tangible characteristics. In these metaphysical planes there is a great deal of what you call time which is used to review and re-review the biases and learn/teachings of a prior, as you would call it, space/time incarnation.

The extreme fluidity of these regions makes it possible for much to be penetrated which must needs be absorbed before the process of healing of an entity may be accomplished. Each entity is located in a somewhat immobile state much as you are located in space/time in a somewhat immobile state in time. In this immobile space the entity has been placed by the form-maker and higher self so that it may be in the proper configuration for learn/teaching that which it has received in the space/time incarnation.

Depending upon this time/space locus there will be certain helpers which assist in this healing process. The process involves seeing in full the experience, seeing it against the backdrop of the mind/body/spirit complex total experience, forgiving the self for all missteps as regards the missed guideposts during the incarnation and, finally, the careful assessment of the next necessities for learning. This is done entirely by the higher self until an entity has become conscious in space/time of the process and means of spiritual evolution at which time the entity will consciously take part in all decisions.

references
The Electric Sun Hypothesis (DONALD E. SCOTT)
http://electric-cosmos.org/sun.htm

Plasma Kosmology (Electric stars theory in relation to Oahspe)
http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/pp0/sun5.html
Understanding the solar dynamo
http://astrogeo.oxfordjournals.org/content/45/4/4.7.full
Electric Field on Earth
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1998/TreshaEdwards.shtml
Power Density of Solar Radiation
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1998/ManicaPiputbundit.shtml
Of Particular Significance

Bible Chronology / Timeline from Adam to Zedekiah

Overview

I’ve spent a good 15 years trying to test a literal biblical timeline against contemporary ancient king lists, timelines, archaeological evidence, geological evidence and other modern channeled texts.

One of the things that’s really stuck out to me in studying Egyptian, Greek, Babylonian and Akkadian histories is that these ancient people used cultural genealogies to legitimize their authority in the same way that modern Western culture uses science to claim cultural superiority. Each of them followed a similar template of claiming direct descent from the ancient heroes and demigods–passing through the ancient cataclysms–straight to their established rulers and religious priesthoods. For them it was a form of nationalism, ego and pride. To have the oldest, most cohesive history of one’s culture was to be able to lay claim of superiority over other cultures (for examples, see this article on ancient examples of history revisionism). In a tradition carried out by many Jews and Christians alike today, to possess the “true” history (ie. scripture) of the world was to be able to claim the mandate of heaven and approval of the gods or God himself. Josephus’s “On the Antiquity of the Jews” is a prime example.

Despite being forced by overwhelming evidence to drop overly literal interpretations of the bible, my scholarly research has not altogether destroyed my faith in the Bible. In fact the more I study the enduring scriptural texts of ancient and modern cultures, the more I’m convinced that much of scripture come from a source of higher intelligence and that the king lists and timelines up to the period of the judges are likely the most accurate and complete one’s known. But what I have come to believe through reading a great deal of historical and channeled material is that the Bible is a text of mysticism as much as it is a text of history. The numbers, dates, names and accounts for periods before Moses seem to be trying to teach hidden concepts more than they seem to be trying to give a literal history. That’s not to say there is not literal basis for some of the incredible historical events mentioned in the text (such as the Fall, Flood, Peleg, Tower, etc). But it is to say that to interpret them as most literalists do (such as biblical creationists) is to destroy their purpose and depth—and especially their mystical significance.

For an in depth example, one only need read Swedenborg’s, mystic interpretation of the Bible in his Arcana Cœlestia.  As another example… take the narrative given in the channeled Oaspe text. In this account it is inferred that the list of individuals from Adam to Noah, and from Noah to Terah, may actually be archetypes pointing to cycles of time spanning tens of thousands of years instead of a literal father-son genealogy spanning a mere few hundred years. Studying the king lists in  Egyptian, Sumerian and Babylonian culture also adds a good deal of insight. As well as the creation accounts found Hindu scripture or texts like The Kolbrin.

For an excellent treatise on the patterns and ancient context of biblical dates see “Making Sense of the Numbers of Genesis“.

For a well research literal timeline of the Bible, see the work of Daniel Gregg at Torahtimes.org

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GenDescendant of AdamNotes about LifeTotal Life SpanBegat son at…Lived after that …Prstd Ordin- ation BIRTH (Yr-BC)DEATH (Yr-BC)Scripture reference’s) which give exact ages/dates.
1AdamDates start at the Fall of Adam9301308004000 BC3070 BCMoses 6:10, 11, 12Gen 5:3, 4, 5
2Seth.912105807693870 BC2958 BCMoses 6:13, 14, 16Gen 5:6, 7, 8
3Enos.905908151343765 BC2860 BCMoses 6:17, 18Gen 5:9, 10, 11
4Cainan.91070840873675 BC2765 BCMoses 6:19Gen 5:12, 13, 14
5Mahalaleel.895658304963605 BC2710 BCMoses 6:20Gen 5:15, 16, 17
6Jared.9621628002003540 BC2578 BCMoses 6:21, 24Gen 5:18, 19, 20
7EnochEnoch translated either when 365 or 430 yrs old (in 1052 A.F. Or 2948 BC)N/A65N/A253378 BCN/AMoses 6:25 7:68 8:1 – Gen 5:21, 22 D&C 107:49
8Methuselah.9691877821003313 BC2344 BCMoses 8:5, 6, 7Gen 5:25, 26, 27
9Lamech.777182595323126 BC2349 BCMoses 8:8, 10, 11Gen 5:28, 30, 31
10NoahSee Note about Bible discrepacy950492458102944 BC1994 BCMoses 8:12Gen 5:32 9:29
11Shem.6101105002452 BC1852 BCGen 11:10, 11, 12

Noah’s Flood: Occurred when Noah was 600, and Shem was 108. That’s 1548 years from fall or 2344 BC. Noah died 350 years after it ended
(Gen 7:6,11 8:17 9:28).

GenDescendant of AdamNotes about LifeTotal Life SpanBegat son at…Lived after thatPrstd Ordin- ation BIRTH (Yr-BC)DEATH (Yr-BC)References
12Arphaxed.438354032342 BC1914 BCGen 11:12, 13
13Salah.433304032307 BC1884 BCGen 11:14, 15
14Eber.46434430N/A2277 BC1823 BCGen 11:16, 17
15PelegIn his days the earth is divided23930209N/A2243 BC2014 BCGen 11:18, 19
16Reu.23932207N/A2213 BC1984 BCGen 11:20, 21
17Serug.23030200N/A2181 BC1961 BCGen 11:22, 23
18Nahor.14829119N/A2151 BC2013 BCGen 11:24, 25
19TerahSee Note about Bible discrepacy20570-130+/-105N/A2122 BC1927 BCGen 11:26, 32, 12:1,4
20Abraham.17510075?2022 BC?1847 BC?Gen 21:5,25:7,8
21Isaac.1806060?1922 BC1742 BCGen 25:7 36:28
22Jacob.1476879?1862 BC1715 BCGen 47:28 9?
23Levi.13764?73?1794 BC1657 BCExodus 6:16
24KohathVery little info (Only age at death given)13370?63?1730 BC?1597 BC?Exodus 6:18
25AmramVery little info (Only age at death given)13763?74?1660 BC?1523 BC?Exodus 6:20
26MosesTranslated at age 120N/A40-80N/A40-801597 BC1477 BCDeut. 34:7, Exodus 7:7, Acts 7:23,30

The Exodus: See Note. Occurred when Moses was 80 years old. In 1517 BC, 430 years after Abraham was 75 or 215 years passed from the time that Jacob entered Israel to the exodus (Acts 7:23,30Gal 3:17Gen 15:13,16).

GenDescendant of AdamNotes about LifeTotal Life SpanBegat son at…Age Made KingTotal Reign Beg Reign (lds)Reign (accepted BC)Scripture reference’s giving exact ages/ dates.
 JoshuaSee Note for explanation for length of riegn110N/A75351477-1422 Josh 24:29
27Othneil8 yr captivity to Mesopt. 40 year freedomN/A401442-1402 Judges 3:ll (also see Judges 3:8)
 Ehud/Sham.18 yr captivity to Moab. 80 year freedomN/A801402-1322 Judges 3:30 (also see Judges 3:14)
28DeborahRules w/ Barak. 20 yr captivity to Canaan.N/A401322-1282 Judges 5:31 (see also Judges 4:2–3)
 Gideon7 yr captivity to Midian. 40 year freedom401282-1242 Judges 8:28 (See also Judges 6:1)
29AbimelechSon of Gideon (Judg 9:18,21)N/A31242-1233 Judges 9:22 (16-55)
 TolaSon of Puah of IssacharN/A231239-1216 Judges 10:1
 JairOf GileadN/A221216-1194 Judges 10:3
30Jephthah18 year oppression by PhilistinesN/A61194-1188 Judges 12:7 (see also Judges 10:8)
 Ibzanof Bethlehem (1 chron )N/A71188-1181 Judges 12:8–9
 ElonOf ZebulunN/A101181-1171 Judges 12:11–12
 AbdonSon of Hillel, of PirathonN/A81171-1163 Judges 12:13–14
31Samson40 year oppression by PhilistinesN/A201163-1143 Judges 15:20 (see also Judges 13:1)
 Eli40 is not civil reign shouldn’t be counted?98N/A401143-1103 1 Samuel 4:15,18
32SamuelRules solely for a time and jointly with Saul105N/A59?71103-1096 Josephus? (is 66 when he anoints Saul)
 SaulBorn ? (40 yrs includes Samuel?)60N/A20271102-10601037-1010Acts 13:21
33DavidBorn 1040 BC?7033401062-10221010-9702 Sam 5:4–5, 1 Chr. 29:27, 3:4
34SolomonBorn 990 BC? Temple lain in 1018 BC?58??39/401022-952970-9312 Chr. 9:30, 1 Kings 11:42

Foundation of Temple is Lain: Solomon lays temple foundation in 4rth year of his reign in approximately 1018-1019 BC, and
480 years after the Exodus (1 Kings 6:1).

GenKingLife NotesLife SpanBegat son at…Age Made KingTotal Reign Reign (lds)Reign BCReferences
35RehoboamFights against bro, Jeroboam all his life.584117982-965931-9152 Chr. 12:13, 1 Kings 14:21
36Abijam(a.k.a. Abijah) Wicked like his father3965-962915-9122 Chr. 13:2, 1 Kings 15:2
37AsaRightous41962-921912-8712 Chr. 16:13, 1 Kings 15:10
38JehoshaphatRightous60283525921-896871-8492 Chr. 20:31, 1 Kings 22:42
39JehoramWicked4018328896-888849-8422 Chr. 21:5,20, 2 Kings 8:17
40Ahaziah (x)Chronicles says he started to reign at 422322221888-887842-8412 Chr. 22:2 , 2 Kings 8:26
 AthaliaWicked wife of Jehoram. Userps throneN/A6887-881841-8352 Chr. 22:12, 2 Kings 11:3
41JoashSon of Ahaziah, saved by High Priest4722740881-841835-7962 Chr. 24:1, 2 Kings 12:1, 11:21
42Amaziah.54382529841-812796-7672 Chr. 25:1, 2 Kings 14:2
43Uzziah(a.k.a. Azariah) big earthquake during reign68431652812-760767-7402 Chr. 26:3, 2 Kings 15:2
44Jotham.41212516760-744750-7352 Chr. 27:1,8, 2 Kings 15:33
45Ahaziah(a.k.a Ahaz)362016744-728735-7152 Chr. 28:1, 2 Kings 16:2
46HezekiahSun goes back 15 degrees54422529728-699715-6872 Chr. 29:1, 2 Kings 18:2
47Manasseh.67451255699-644687-6422 Chr. 33:1, 2 Kings 21:1
48Amon (x)Murdered2416222644-642642-6402 Chr. 33:21 2 Kings 21:19
49Josiah.3914831642-611640-6092 Chr. 34:1 2 Kings 22:1
50Jehoiakim(a.ka. Eliakim) vassal to pharaoh36152511611-600609-5112 Chr. 36:5, 2 Kings 23:36
Zedekiah(a.k.a. Mattaniah) Johoiakim’s cousin32322111600-589597-5862 Chr. 36:11. 2 Kings 24:18

BOM Timeline: Babylonian Captivity. This puts us into the BOM and established written history. (See 1 Nephi 10:4)

correlation of all genealogical tables given in biblical/LDS scripture
BOLD FONT = Exact date is given in corresponding scripture references column.

REGULAR FONT = Date calculated using bold dates.
? = Uncertainty in date calculation

Kings Reigns and Dates of The Kingdom of Israel

GenKingLife NotesLife SpanAge Made KingTotal Reign Reign (lds)Reign BCReferences
35Jeroboam ISplits Northern Kingdom from Judah & pure Davidic Line ? 21 961-940931-911 1 Kings 11:26–40, 2 Chron #
 NadabKilled by Baasha  2 940-938911-910 1 Kings 15:25
36Baasha   24 938-914910-887 1 Kings 15:33
 ElahKilled by Zimri (only reigns 7 days, thus omitted here) 22 2 914-912887-886 1 Kings 16:8
 OmriTibni reigns after Zimri for 5 years as rival to Omri 1212 12 912-900886-875 1 Kings 16:23
37Ahab  2221 22 900-878875-853 1 Kings 16:29
38Ahaziah  N/A 2 878-876853-852 1 Kings 22:51 
39JerohamKilled by Jehu in 841 1212 12 876-864852–841 2 Kings 3:1
40Jehu  2828 28 864-836841-814 2 Kings 10:36
41Jehoahaz  1717 17 836-819814-798 2 Kings 13:1
41Jeoash  1616 16 819-803798-753 2 Kings 13:10
42Jeroboam IIwith Joash/Jehoash from 793/792 41 41 803-762782-753 2 Kings 14:23
43MenahemSeveral short-lived claimants omitted. 1010 10 762-752752–742 2 Kings 15:17
43PekahiahMurdered by Pekahx22 2 752-750742-740 2 Kings 15:23
44PekahKilled by Hosheax2012 20 750-730740-732 2 Kings 15:27
45HosheaSamaria and Israel fall to Assyria in 722 9-16 9 730-721732-722 2 Kings 17:1

About General Date Accuracy

Dates accuracies range from high at the reign of Zedekiah (BOM), to +/- 10-20 yrs at Rehoboam, to poorer during the reign of the judges.  LDS revelation, given in D&C 77:6–7, 12 & D&C 88:108–110 emphasizes the mystical importance of the 7000 year cycle in the bible timeline (1 Ne. 13:40, Mormon 7:9.  see also the Jaredite genealogy and the book of Moses as well, as seen in my genealogical tables)

For Mormon’s, Book of Mormon verses in 1 Nephi 1:4 & 2:4 state that Nephi’s family left Jerusalem in the first year of the reign of Zedekiah. 1 Nephi 10:4 & 19:8 assure that this was in 600-601 BC. Thus we use this as our starting point, and count back through the kings of Judah until David. We can assume an error of a few years because dates for this period are only accurate to the year, not the month. Dates from Adam to David are counted forward from Adam with an arbitrary starting point of 4000 BC (D&C 76:11). At Solomon, where the two dating schemes meet, we amazingly find only a 15 year error.

Pre-‘Flood’ Notes

Joseph Smith’s Moses 1:41 would suggest that some aspect of the dates given in that book and Genesis were channeled much like modern texts like Oahspe or The Book of Mormon. This antediluvian chronology is actually given in seven different books of both LDS and non-LDS scripture (see genealogy chart). The channeled text “The Law of One”, suggests that life spans of 900 years were common during earth’s first precessional cycle after humans were brought to the planet 75,000 years ago.  Oahspe suggests that the sinking of Pan/Lemuria occured 50,000 years ago.  Of course, none of these channeled events can be verified scientifically.

Genesis 5 says that Noah had three sons but does not give specific years, only stating that he was 500 when they had all been born. Moses 8 clears this up by giving exact years for each son’s birth.

Patriarchal Era Notes

Nimrod is the great grandson of Noah (Noah-Ham-Cush-Nimrod) said to be born around the time of Salah. He is credited with building the city of Babel (Genesis 10:10) and the tower (Apocrypha). It’s climax and destruction (I.e. Brother of Jared leaving) seem strangely out of place given the suggested populations for those who hold to a global flood. Apocryphal sources state that Nimrod lived long enough to be a contemporary of Abraham.

All three of Terah’s children are mentioned as being born when Terah was 70 (Genesis 11:26)
Lectures on faith, gives another chronology on the patriarchs which is very similar but diverges as follows: (under construction)
Jacob was about 68 calculated from….
Levi, Kohath, and Amram’s age when they had their patriarchal son is not given.
Moses and Aaron were brothers, both born of Amram; Aaron was three years older than Moses.

Exodus Notes

Jacob entered Egypt at age 130 (Gen 37:9 gives exact age)

The Septuagint copy of Exodus 14:40 says Israel was in captivity for exactly 215 years. This date fits nicely with genealogies and would have spanned from the time Jacob/Israel and his sons entered Egypt until the Exodus. Jacob died in the year 1715 BC at age 147, so he lived in Egypt for 17 years before his death. This puts his entrance into Egypt in 1732 BC. We know the exodus was in 1517 BC, so these date match since 1732 – 1517 = 215 years.  However, Oahspe puts this event thousands of years earlier.

Exodus 12:40 says “Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was 430 years”. The septuagint and Samaritan copies correct this wording to say “Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, and of their fathers, which they sojourned in the land of Canaan and in the land of Egypt was 430 years”. (p156 skousen) Gen 15:13–16 substantiates that the septuagint correction is the proper wording.

Gen 15:13–16 says that Abraham’s seed would be “sojourners in a strange land for four generations” or “400 years”. This appears to be giving a rounded estimate. The 430 year version given in Ex. 12:40 and the septuagint are likely the more exact dates.

The exodus occurred 430 years from the time of Abraham’s vision in Canaan. (Gen 16:3, 15–16 suggests that this vision was shortly before Abraham married Hagar, which was 10 years before Abraham was 86) (430 year figure comes from Gal 3:17, Acts 7:6–7, & Gen 15:13, 16. This amount of time matches well with genealogies and other dates given) The 430 years could have also have started when Abraham had Ishmeal and left Canain, which would only change dates by a few years.

Acts 7:23 tells that Moses was 40 when he smote the Egyptian and fled. Acts 7:30 tells that Moses refuge in Midian for another full 40 years. Exodus 7:7 further supports this and says Moses was 80 years old when he returned to liberate Israel. From this we know that Moses was ordained to the priesthood by Jethro and bore both his two sons during this 40 year period between the ages of 40 and 80.

Clarke’s Bible commentary 1:883 suggests that Joshua was 57 at the time of the Exodus. After 40 years in the wilderness, this would put the death of Moses, and the beginning of his reign at age 97. [reigning 13 years]

Judges Notes

Dates given for the period of the Judges seem to be the most questionable or unreliable of all post Moses Bible periods. This is somewhat expected since it was a period of repeated captivity and apostasy. Adding up the dates given equals about 536 years, but with all the apparent rounded or estimated numbers it doesn’t seem very trustworthy. However, 1 kings 6:1 clears up the problem, telling that the Solomon’s temple began to be built in the fourth year of Solomon’s Reign and “480 years after the children of israel were come out of Egypt”. Which puts us at 1499 BC. But this still begs the question of whether this date points to the Exodus, or the entry into Israel. Since the record states “come out of Egypt” instead of “Come into Canaan” we will suppose it is referring to the exodus.

A second witness comes in Judges 11:26, where Jephthah says that Israel had been living in the coasts of Israel for 300 years. Which fits appropriately with the 480 year number given in kings, since Jephthah lived a bit more than half way through the period of the judges.

A third witness is given in Acts 13:20, which says God gave unto Israel “judges about the space of 450 years until Samuel the prophet”. Samuel began to reign about 80 years before Solomon began the temple, so this may conflict a bit with the 480 from Kings or it is likely that the periods of “servitude” listed in the Book of Judges are actually also included in the rounded numbers given. If not it seems quite a coincidence that the servitude periods add up to be very close to the number needed to make the dates match 480. (8+18+20+7+18+40=111, And 585?-111=474)

Either way we have a good ballpark figure for the Exodus of about 1499 BC (1019+480) for the Exodus. (many scholars use the date 1446 BC).

Kings Notes

The period of the Kings is the most recent found in the Old Testament, and given the intricate detail involved is probably quite accurate. Many of the names and dates given in Kings and Chronicles fall within secular recorded history and can be “scientifically” verified. However, it is this same fact which has led to some confusion as archeologists and historians find slightly conflicting dates. I believe the Bible is more accurate than these however, as historical dates often used calendars and counting systems which I believe were less accurate than that of the Hebrews. The Bible’s internal chronology for this period (calculated from the length of king’s reigns) gives 429 (433-4) years from the fall of Judah to the building of Solomon’s Temple.

The book of Mormon tells us Lehi left Jerusalem 600 years before the birth of Christ (1 Ne. 10:4), which it also tells us was during the 1st year of the reign of Zedekiah (1 Ne 1:4). So to get the date for the building of Solomon’s temple we add up reigns which total 433 years. And 433 minus 10 (Zedekiah lived about 10 years after Lehi left Jerusalem) minus 4 (Solomon started his temple in the 4rth year of his reign) gives us 419 years. So all together that’s 600+419 or 1019 BC (give or take a few years because kings reigns are not accurate to the month).

General Breakdown

The mystical significance of the biblical 7000 year cycle seems to be emphasized by the fact that the bible also gives dates covering each major epoch of time.

-Adam to Abraham
Approximately 2,048 years passed from the Fall to God’s vision to Abraham. (Moses 6:10–25, 7:68, 8:1-12, Gen. 5:3–32, 11:10-32, Lectures on Faith: Lecture Second.)
-Abraham to Exodus
Approximately 430 years passed from around the time of Abraham’s vision until the Exodus. (Exodus 12:40, Gen. 15:13–16)
-Exodus to Solomon
480 years passed from the Exodus to the building of the Temple of Solomon. (1 Kings 6:1)
-Solomon to Fall of Judah
Approximately 418 years passed from the building of the temple to the reign of Zedekiah and fall of Judah to Babylon (Period well documented in books of Kings & Chronicles)
-Zedekiah to birth of Christ
600 years passed from the time Lehi left Jerusalem (the first year of Zedekiah’s reign) to the time of Christ. (1 Nephi 1:4, 2:4)

2048+430+480+418+600= +/- 3976 Years from Adam to Christ

Related Pages
Biblical Chronology- Kings of Israel Line

Jaredite Chronology

Biblical Genealogy Tables